Advice For Achieving Finish on Watch

[karlthor94]

So I am new to engraving but have a nice GRS setup with Leica A60.
I am currently a watchmaking student looking to specialize in finishing work.
I want to recreate a finish known as "Tremblage" best known on the A. Lange & Sohne watch dials.
Is there a specific graver that could such a finish? Any guidance would be much appreciated.

 

[Old Gunsmith]

I use use a similar pattern when I do the background on German oak leaf engraving. The background in your photo looks almost identical to the background that I do. I stipple using a sharp point graver that is almost needle sharp. The pattern can be varied depending on the size of the flat left on the end. The smaller the flat, the finer the pattern. I hold the graver verticle to the work and let it sort of dance around on the surface in a random circular motion. One has to be careful around the edges because sometimes it will jump out and make a divot in the raised surface. I will usually outline the area first going slow then speed up to fill in the center. I use a rubber band with a knot tied in the center and looped around the graver on one end and the handpiece on the other. This keeps the graver collet in constant contact with the handpiece. If the collet does not stay seated all the way it does some weird stuff to the pattern. Don't ask me how I know that. I use a Linsay template to sharpen my stippling graver. There is one template that sharpens a hex shaped stippling point that looks pretty cool. It took quite a bit of experimentation to get the look that I wanted.

Hope this helps.

Dennis

 

[Mike Cirelli]

You can get a nice stippled background as Old Gunsmith described. I would have to say the picture you posted that you would like to duplicate looks to be done by a machine or stamped out. I believe you may get the look your looking for with a narrow line graver using it almost like wriggle or short random directional pecks. If the dial background is engraved by hand the numbers and name usually but not always would be applied after the finish is applied.

 

[AllenClapp]

Looking closely at this photo, the dimple placement is random enough that it looks like it may have been made with a stippling technique. However, to me, it looks like it was NOT made with a sharp stippling tool. It looks like the dimples were made with a stippling punch that has a rounded end that produces dimples. Try slightly rounding a stippling punch and dragging through the flesh side of a piece of leather coated with diamond spray and see if that will reproduce the dimpled look. Try it will different point diameters to see which gives the effect that you want.

 

[Goldjockey]

So I am new to engraving but have a nice GRS setup with Leica A60.
I am currently a watchmaking student looking to specialize in finishing work.
I want to recreate a finish known as "Tremblage" best known on the A. Lange & Sohne watch dials.
Is there a specific graver that could such a finish? Any guidance would be much appreciated. View attachment 53960

A finish like this can also be achieved with textured stamps (punches with a textured surface that transfers to the work surface), or with a textured material like sandpaper used in a rollling mill between two sheets of metal. To me it looks like the surface has been worked with textured stamps rather than being engraved.

 

[unplugged]

Here you go - the desired information directly from the manufacturer :

https://www.alange-soehne.com/eu-de/timepieces/zeitwerk/zeitwerk-handwerkskunst

Ingenieurskunst in handwerklicher Vollendung​

Der Fadenstichel gleicht einem Flachstichel, doch die Schneide ist mit spitzen Zähnen verse¬hen. Für die Tremblage auf dem Zifferblatt der 2012 vorgestellten ZEITWERK HANDWERKSKUNST führt der Graveur einen speziell angefertigten Fadenstichel von Hand in verschiedene Richtungen über das schwarzrhodinierte Weißgold. Die aufwendige Finissierung unterstreicht die technische Raffinesse der digitalen Sprungziffernanzeige.

The art of engineering in perfect craftsmanship

The graver resembles a flat graver, but the cutting edge is fitted with pointed teeth. For the tremblage on the dial of the ZEITWERK HANDWERKSKUNST presented in 2012, the engraver guides a specially made graver by hand in different directions over the black rhodium-plated white gold. The elaborate finishing underlines the technical sophistication of the digital jumping numerals display.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

 

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the “branches” engraved with pointed graver. the structure trembled with a toothed flat graver (Fadenstichel)

 

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dito

 

[unplugged]

I found something more detailed - please translate it yourself :

Uhren-Wissen: Handgravur - Zehn vor Zwei

Die Handgravur von Uhren und Uhrwerken ist eine selten gewordenen Technik, die nur noch von wenigen Uhrenmarke gepflegt wird.

zehnvorzwei.de

 

[rweigel]

After reading trough the german textes I guess that the background pattern is done with very short criss-crossing strokes of a line graver (“Fadenstichel”), rather than with a stippling technique. There are some signs of it in the first image posted, one can see some rows of points that have the same distance. The line graver might be polished at the belly to round the points a bit. One might even try Bulino with a line graver.

”Tremblage” is a bit misleading, as the ”tremblé” cut refers to the “wriggle cut” of the english speaking engravers.

 

[unplugged]

However, the background of these clocks is trembled. To do this, you “wiggle” back and forth with a thread graver with a “feed”. Many goblets are engraved using this technique, but with a simple flat graver, which is also used to create the patterns on saxophones.
If you now tremble with a thread graver, dot patterns are created, and if you do this often enough in a criss-cross pattern (overlapping), this pattern is created, which looks like it has been beaten with a very fine pearl punch.
However, as it is better not to hammer on such watch parts, they are simply trembled in the classic way.
The aforementioned technique of cutting straight across with the thread stitch (crossing each other) is called “satinizing” and, as the name suggests, the result is a fine silky sheen - without any dots at all.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

And because I'm not sure if my text is translated correctly, here it is again in my native language (German).
Maybe someone can translate it correctly ??

- der Hintergrund dieser Uhren ist aber doch trembliert . Dazu "wackelt" man mit einem Fadenstichel mit "Vorschub" hin- und her. Mit dieser Technik, aber mit glattem Flachstichel werden viele Pokale graviert, und auch die Muster auf Saxophonen entstehen damit.
Wenn man nun mit einem Fadenstichel trembliert, entstehen Punktmuster, und wenn man das oft genug kreuz und quer (sich überlagernd) macht, entsteht dieses Muster, das aussieht wie mit einem Ganz feinen Perlpunzen geklopft.
Da man auf so Uhrenteile allerdings besser nicht drauf rumhämmert, wird eben ganz klassisch trembliert.
Die erwähnte Technik des geradeausschneidens mit dem Fadenstichel (sich überkreuzend) nennt man dann "Satinieren" und wie der Name sagt, entsteht dabei ein feiner Seidenglanz - gänzlich ohne Punkte.

 

[rweigel]

I’m curious and will try it on cold-rolled copper sheet…

 

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Here you can see the technique of trembling: