Al mar eagle

AllenClapp

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
182
Location
Raleigh, NC
I got lost trying to follow the scroll. It looks like you started at the lower right. Then you doubled back and upward twice from the inner side of the scroll. However, the second upward double-back scroll rolls around to intersect the primary initial scroll right where the initial scroll continues to the left. The upward double-back scroll section is larger than the initial scroll. It is so large that it dominates the design and looks like the main scroll. As a result, it looks to me like the continuation of the original scroll to the left is coming off backwards from the large upward double-back scroll. I suggest that you consider decreasing the size of the upper double-back and inserting some outside leaves on the initial main scroll between the backbone and the upper double-back. To me, that would make the sizes of the scrolls harmonize better and make the flow very clear. The current design looks to me like you got carried away with the double-back routine, (perhaps) used it too often, and didn't pay enough attention to the harmony of scroll sizes as the design moves along. I say perhaps used the double-back idea too often because, if the upward double-back scroll size is decreased, it may all fall back into place nicely. If you do decrease the size of the large double-back and insert some leaves between it and the initial main scroll, you probably won't need to double back on the first inside leaf of the initial scroll. That space could be filled nicely with an outside leaf on the initial scroll and an outside leaf on the reduced upward double-back scroll. I am not a master engraver, so I look forward to comments of others, but I thought you might be interested to hear that I got confused trying to follow the design. I hope my suggestions make some amount of sense.
 

Matthew Evans

:::Pledge Member:::
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
289
Location
Northwest florida
I got lost trying to follow the scroll. It looks like you started at the lower right. Then you doubled back and upward twice from the inner side of the scroll. However, the second upward double-back scroll rolls around to intersect the primary initial scroll right where the initial scroll continues to the left. The upward double-back scroll section is larger than the initial scroll. It is so large that it dominates the design and looks like the main scroll. As a result, it looks to me like the continuation of the original scroll to the left is coming off backwards from the large upward double-back scroll. I suggest that you consider decreasing the size of the upper double-back and inserting some outside leaves on the initial main scroll between the backbone and the upper double-back. To me, that would make the sizes of the scrolls harmonize better and make the flow very clear. The current design looks to me like you got carried away with the double-back routine, (perhaps) used it too often, and didn't pay enough attention to the harmony of scroll sizes as the design moves along. I say perhaps used the double-back idea too often because, if the upward double-back scroll size is decreased, it may all fall back into place nicely. If you do decrease the size of the large double-back and insert some leaves between it and the initial main scroll, you probably won't need to double back on the first inside leaf of the initial scroll. That space could be filled nicely with an outside leaf on the initial scroll and an outside leaf on the reduced upward double-back scroll. I am not a master engraver, so I look forward to comments of others, but I thought you might be interested to hear that I got confused trying to follow the design. I hope my suggestions make some amount of sense.
Makes sense to me, I’ll happily update till I get it harmonized. “A master at his craft has failed more times than a novice has tried.”
 
Last edited:

Matthew Evans

:::Pledge Member:::
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
289
Location
Northwest florida
I got lost trying to follow the scroll. It looks like you started at the lower right. Then you doubled back and upward twice from the inner side of the scroll. However, the second upward double-back scroll rolls around to intersect the primary initial scroll right where the initial scroll continues to the left. The upward double-back scroll section is larger than the initial scroll. It is so large that it dominates the design and looks like the main scroll. As a result, it looks to me like the continuation of the original scroll to the left is coming off backwards from the large upward double-back scroll. I suggest that you consider decreasing the size of the upper double-back and inserting some outside leaves on the initial main scroll between the backbone and the upper double-back. To me, that would make the sizes of the scrolls harmonize better and make the flow very clear. The current design looks to me like you got carried away with the double-back routine, (perhaps) used it too often, and didn't pay enough attention to the harmony of scroll sizes as the design moves along. I say perhaps used the double-back idea too often because, if the upward double-back scroll size is decreased, it may all fall back into place nicely. If you do decrease the size of the large double-back and insert some leaves between it and the initial main scroll, you probably won't need to double back on the first inside leaf of the initial scroll. That space could be filled nicely with an outside leaf on the initial scroll and an outside leaf on the reduced upward double-back scroll. I am not a master engraver, so I look forward to comments of others, but I thought you might be interested to hear that I got confused trying to follow the design. I hope my suggestions make some amount of sense.
 
Last edited:

monk

Moderator
Staff member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
10,175
Location
washington, pa
in my opinion the large, top scroll hijacks the "flow" in the design. i'd simply bring it out in the oppodsite direction. btw, your spines are very nicely drawn.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
91
i think you are trying to do too much at the same time, don' try to re- work the design, unless it is almost done. you are better off re-drawing the whole thing. the backbones you showed earlier are pretty well done, they are starting to elongate as the design gets re-done. so keep the shape of scroll you had in the first post and i'd advise not to bother with the doubling over and the crossing of scrolls, you can do pretty amazing things with non-overlapping scrolls, just focus on flow and filling the space as well as you can, then, with time, when flow is something that comes naturally, you can start changing things and getting the scrolls to overlap and to pass trough each other. if you fixate on one element of the design right now you might end up making your life much more difficult. If you get the "right layout" by chance you won't understand why it works, you'll just "see" that it does.

TL:DR : simplify the design and focus on flow, you'll have a chance at breaking the rules in a future project and you'll understand why
 

Matthew Evans

:::Pledge Member:::
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
289
Location
Northwest florida
i think you are trying to do too much at the same time, don' try to re- work the design, unless it is almost done. you are better off re-drawing the whole thing. the backbones you showed earlier are pretty well done, they are starting to elongate as the design gets re-done. so keep the shape of scroll you had in the first post and i'd advise not to bother with the doubling over and the crossing of scrolls, you can do pretty amazing things with non-overlapping scrolls, just focus on flow and filling the space as well as you can, then, with time, when flow is something that comes naturally, you can start changing things and getting the scrolls to overlap and to pass trough each other. if you fixate on one element of the design right now you might end up making your life much more difficult. If you get the "right layout" by chance you won't understand why it works, you'll just "see" that it does.
TL:DR : simplify the design and focus on flow, you'll have a chance at breaking the rules in a future project and you'll understand
 
Last edited:

Matthew Evans

:::Pledge Member:::
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
289
Location
Northwest florida
Decided just to show the outcome rather than critique request, but here is my first gold inlay on a project. Will have to fix a few spots, but will be adding scrolls identical on both sides.

Will be adding hair thin lines on the edge of the gold to make it pop.

Used the fega scraper tool prescribed from the manual and Lynton, works like a charm.

Going to put my money where my mouth is for education with art and engraving, rather than expecting free advise, but all of the help has been appreciated.

Wish me luck
 

Attachments

  • C0124746-9103-42C4-98F2-3CA3E8159DA0.jpeg
    C0124746-9103-42C4-98F2-3CA3E8159DA0.jpeg
    110 KB · Views: 46
  • F64B9460-0D75-4CA0-B905-D244187F23C5.jpeg
    F64B9460-0D75-4CA0-B905-D244187F23C5.jpeg
    75.8 KB · Views: 46
  • 2D1405D9-C290-414E-8CF8-8698FE3DB0FF.jpeg
    2D1405D9-C290-414E-8CF8-8698FE3DB0FF.jpeg
    77.6 KB · Views: 46

Matthew Evans

:::Pledge Member:::
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
289
Location
Northwest florida
Current rendition with a few sticking points and am going to work it till it works. Going to take the advise from the pro’s and know that the longer and more quality time you give to a design the better.
 

Attachments

  • 574AF078-BFF2-4581-B41E-D7408971DE7C.jpeg
    574AF078-BFF2-4581-B41E-D7408971DE7C.jpeg
    113.5 KB · Views: 22

Latest posts

Sponsors

Top