Critique Request Al mar eagle

AllenClapp

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I got lost trying to follow the scroll. It looks like you started at the lower right. Then you doubled back and upward twice from the inner side of the scroll. However, the second upward double-back scroll rolls around to intersect the primary initial scroll right where the initial scroll continues to the left. The upward double-back scroll section is larger than the initial scroll. It is so large that it dominates the design and looks like the main scroll. As a result, it looks to me like the continuation of the original scroll to the left is coming off backwards from the large upward double-back scroll. I suggest that you consider decreasing the size of the upper double-back and inserting some outside leaves on the initial main scroll between the backbone and the upper double-back. To me, that would make the sizes of the scrolls harmonize better and make the flow very clear. The current design looks to me like you got carried away with the double-back routine, (perhaps) used it too often, and didn't pay enough attention to the harmony of scroll sizes as the design moves along. I say perhaps used the double-back idea too often because, if the upward double-back scroll size is decreased, it may all fall back into place nicely. If you do decrease the size of the large double-back and insert some leaves between it and the initial main scroll, you probably won't need to double back on the first inside leaf of the initial scroll. That space could be filled nicely with an outside leaf on the initial scroll and an outside leaf on the reduced upward double-back scroll. I am not a master engraver, so I look forward to comments of others, but I thought you might be interested to hear that I got confused trying to follow the design. I hope my suggestions make some amount of sense.
 

Matt Evans

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I got lost trying to follow the scroll. It looks like you started at the lower right. Then you doubled back and upward twice from the inner side of the scroll. However, the second upward double-back scroll rolls around to intersect the primary initial scroll right where the initial scroll continues to the left. The upward double-back scroll section is larger than the initial scroll. It is so large that it dominates the design and looks like the main scroll. As a result, it looks to me like the continuation of the original scroll to the left is coming off backwards from the large upward double-back scroll. I suggest that you consider decreasing the size of the upper double-back and inserting some outside leaves on the initial main scroll between the backbone and the upper double-back. To me, that would make the sizes of the scrolls harmonize better and make the flow very clear. The current design looks to me like you got carried away with the double-back routine, (perhaps) used it too often, and didn't pay enough attention to the harmony of scroll sizes as the design moves along. I say perhaps used the double-back idea too often because, if the upward double-back scroll size is decreased, it may all fall back into place nicely. If you do decrease the size of the large double-back and insert some leaves between it and the initial main scroll, you probably won't need to double back on the first inside leaf of the initial scroll. That space could be filled nicely with an outside leaf on the initial scroll and an outside leaf on the reduced upward double-back scroll. I am not a master engraver, so I look forward to comments of others, but I thought you might be interested to hear that I got confused trying to follow the design. I hope my suggestions make some amount of sense.
Makes sense to me, I’ll happily update till I get it harmonized. “A master at his craft has failed more times than a novice has tried.”
 
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Matt Evans

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I got lost trying to follow the scroll. It looks like you started at the lower right. Then you doubled back and upward twice from the inner side of the scroll. However, the second upward double-back scroll rolls around to intersect the primary initial scroll right where the initial scroll continues to the left. The upward double-back scroll section is larger than the initial scroll. It is so large that it dominates the design and looks like the main scroll. As a result, it looks to me like the continuation of the original scroll to the left is coming off backwards from the large upward double-back scroll. I suggest that you consider decreasing the size of the upper double-back and inserting some outside leaves on the initial main scroll between the backbone and the upper double-back. To me, that would make the sizes of the scrolls harmonize better and make the flow very clear. The current design looks to me like you got carried away with the double-back routine, (perhaps) used it too often, and didn't pay enough attention to the harmony of scroll sizes as the design moves along. I say perhaps used the double-back idea too often because, if the upward double-back scroll size is decreased, it may all fall back into place nicely. If you do decrease the size of the large double-back and insert some leaves between it and the initial main scroll, you probably won't need to double back on the first inside leaf of the initial scroll. That space could be filled nicely with an outside leaf on the initial scroll and an outside leaf on the reduced upward double-back scroll. I am not a master engraver, so I look forward to comments of others, but I thought you might be interested to hear that I got confused trying to follow the design. I hope my suggestions make some amount of sense.
 
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monk

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in my opinion the large, top scroll hijacks the "flow" in the design. i'd simply bring it out in the oppodsite direction. btw, your spines are very nicely drawn.
 

Matt Evans

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in my opinion the large, top scroll hijacks the "flow" in the design. i'd simply bring it out in the oppodsite direction. btw, your spines are very nicely drawn.
 
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Matt Evans

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in my opinion the large, top scroll hijacks the "flow" in the design. i'd simply bring it out in the oppodsite direction. btw, your spines are very nicely drawn.
 
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i think you are trying to do too much at the same time, don' try to re- work the design, unless it is almost done. you are better off re-drawing the whole thing. the backbones you showed earlier are pretty well done, they are starting to elongate as the design gets re-done. so keep the shape of scroll you had in the first post and i'd advise not to bother with the doubling over and the crossing of scrolls, you can do pretty amazing things with non-overlapping scrolls, just focus on flow and filling the space as well as you can, then, with time, when flow is something that comes naturally, you can start changing things and getting the scrolls to overlap and to pass trough each other. if you fixate on one element of the design right now you might end up making your life much more difficult. If you get the "right layout" by chance you won't understand why it works, you'll just "see" that it does.

TL:DR : simplify the design and focus on flow, you'll have a chance at breaking the rules in a future project and you'll understand why
 

Matt Evans

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i think you are trying to do too much at the same time, don' try to re- work the design, unless it is almost done. you are better off re-drawing the whole thing. the backbones you showed earlier are pretty well done, they are starting to elongate as the design gets re-done. so keep the shape of scroll you had in the first post and i'd advise not to bother with the doubling over and the crossing of scrolls, you can do pretty amazing things with non-overlapping scrolls, just focus on flow and filling the space as well as you can, then, with time, when flow is something that comes naturally, you can start changing things and getting the scrolls to overlap and to pass trough each other. if you fixate on one element of the design right now you might end up making your life much more difficult. If you get the "right layout" by chance you won't understand why it works, you'll just "see" that it does.
TL:DR : simplify the design and focus on flow, you'll have a chance at breaking the rules in a future project and you'll understand
 
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Matt Evans

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.
 

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Matt Evans

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Current rendition with a few sticking points and am going to work it till it works. Going to take the advise from the pro’s and know that the longer and more quality time you give to a design the better.
 

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Matt Evans

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Ready to engrave and fix the small stuff in cutting. Thanks for the support and all the help.
0A51F22D-A617-4C54-9C1F-69B709306412.jpeg

No rollovers or turn backs this go around and I’m sure I broke a rule or too, but I like it. Will show once done with the project.
 
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Leland Davis

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Matthew, I like it all but the 3 leaves filling space at the bottom. Turn them and attach to the outside of your scrolls like you did in other areas they look like an after thought in a well thought out design. Just my opinion It's your design. I look forward to the finished project.
Leland
 

John B.

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What Leland said and also the third and last scroll backbone does not attach to anything.
It just appears from behind an outside leaf.
The outside leaf at the point of origin is not attached and several other outside leaves are incorrectly attached to the backbone.
You have some nice elements going and I hope you correct your errors before rushing into cutting.
 

Matt Evans

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Current rendition with a few sticking points and am going to work it till it works. Going to take the advise from the pro’s and know that
What Leland said and also the third and last scroll backbone does not attach to anything.
It just appears from behind an outside leaf.
The outside leaf at the point of origin is not attached and several other outside leaves are incorrectly attached to the backbone.
You have some nice elements going and I hope you correct your errors before rushing into cutting.
Thank you, those little bits I’m going to cut on a practice plate to check the flow before I cut on the knife. I agree with the three spots on the bottom needing to be added instead of using as meter marks, and will add the connection to the third scroll in the cutting.
 

Matt Evans

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Ready to engrave and fix the small stuff in cutting. Thanks for the support and all the help.
View attachment 49033

No rollovers or turn backs this go around and I’m sure I broke a rule or too, but I like it. Will show once done with the project.

So as an update, I took some advise and printed and cut what I had so far, it was smushed and did not flow well. This is an update with where I’m calling it a night. (The dayjob won’t let me draw all day)

Made two instead of three main lines for the backbone and am offsetting the leaves to give some movement. Not far off from completing the leaves where I like them. Then will adjust and shade till I get it


Will be purchasing the Leica s9d so I’ll be able to manage the small areas and show a video or two once all set up. The tough part is balancing and knowing the right sizing for the job, but I’m sure that comes with time and practice.

If this project is successful I’ll start working on my gun which is a long time coming but you can’t rush anything as the saying goes.

Hope everyone is having an enjoyable start to their year and hope to see you all at fega in a few years when I have work to bring to the table. image.jpg
 
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papart1

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I believe the inlay is always done first to maintain width in the overall design. Then the design itself is propagated within.
 

papart1

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Probly just a premature overlook on my part.............sorry
 

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