Question: Andu Engraver

Crockettman

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Jan 8, 2020
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Hi folks,

Anyone on here use or have experience of the Andu hand control engraver?

Thanks
Ed
 

Crockettman

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Jan 8, 2020
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not sure i've even heard of this one. where is it made?

By a guy I believe in Vietnam, seen some of his vids on YouTube and looks quite good for what it is.

I thought it looked like a dopple ganger of the Lindsay palm control but didn't know there had been a patent infringement of it as bildio mentioned.
 

Goldjockey

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Very interesting!

Faced with an intellectual property infringement situation in the 1990's, when the defendants (infringers) didn't show up for their day in Federal District Court , we made a motion for, and received a default Judgement, and permanent injunction which allowed us to seize and destroy literally suitcases full of infringing products. As I recall, we were also entitled to all of the profits (gross not net) that resellers had derived from the sale of the products.

Having Federal Marshals go out to enforce seizure orders, and watching piles of the infringing merchandise being melted into scrap, was satisfying in ways that anyone who's been through this will well understand.

Not commenting on Steve's case, or recommending this course of action for anyone else.
 

monk

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same for me with the lindsay. the gravermeister still works as good as when i bought it. the year mr. meeks pubbed his book. it was that book that sorta made me buy mine. i've never cleaned the lindsay. the meister has had its' third belt. dang good track record !
 

orchidlover

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Aug 20, 2014
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Hi folks,

Anyone on here use or have experience of the Andu hand control engraver?

Thanks
Ed

Hi all.
I actually bought the Andu hand control graver and returned it a week later. It started to fall apart about 3 hours into running it. In concept, it worked, but it was too fragile to be worth even the discount price. I would get the Lindsay or GRS units, don't waste your money on the Andu.
 

leaky13

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Very interesting!

Faced with an intellectual property infringement situation in the 1990's, when the defendants (infringers) didn't show up for their day in Federal District Court , we made a motion for, and received a default Judgement, and permanent injunction which allowed us to seize and destroy literally suitcases full of infringing products. As I recall, we were also entitled to all of the profits (gross not net) that resellers had derived from the sale of the products.

Having Federal Marshals go out to enforce seizure orders, and watching piles of the infringing merchandise being melted into scrap, was satisfying in ways that anyone who's been through this will well understand.

Not commenting on Steve's case, or recommending this course of action for anyone else.


Yeah, that's not even remotely related to the truth of the case. lmao.

Also, anyone who thinks Lindsays are the "best" are just full of themselves. It's like saying Nike are the best shoe, Porsche is the "best car" etc.

1. The lawsuit was related to patent infringement on the piston design itself. Lindsay (in my mind) violated public commons when he did his patent. He wasn't the only one making his Gravers like he was. In fact, MANY people were. He was just the first one to patent it and create a lock on it. If you actually look at the patent, it was open public use for a while, until they went back and snagged it again. It's like putting a patent on a Violin so only one person can make them "a certain way". It's nonsense. Also, I'm pretty sure that patent is up for grabs again. So anyone can try to snag it or try to force it for open commons. Which is what I petitioned for, for most artistic tools. Since ANYONE and EVERYONE should have the right to create and sell tools. That's the whole point to competitive market. Let alone the quality from vietnam is the exact same and "some" are better than Lindsay's. I mean, I don't care for my graver to be engraved. Yet that's my only option, that itself kicked up Lindsay's prices for "hand made".. which is kind of annoying.

2. The people were from Vietnam and weren't served their petition rights, nor had the money or means to come to fight the case. Its like anyone in this chat going to a lawyer and saying you want to sue some random person in Africa..... You think that letter is just going to appear. Or that person will know their legal rights or know how to communicate well enough to contact a lawyer to get help?? Nooo.. So, YAY the big rich american sues a poor vietnam kid and his grandfather.. Big men right there. Lets not get into the concept that their gravers were being sold around their region for the past 40 years. Which they have evidence of with their pictures and such from 50 years ago. About 15-20 years before Lindsays said "invention"...

3. Lets get back to the BS about the seize and destroy.. Suitcases full of products. Yeah, didn't happen. They had a few distributing products in the US. Which the "US marshals" have jurisdiction here. They can't and won't go to another country and force people to give up any products, no matter what legal grounds the US gives them. If you want to argue that policy, I have a nice Ph.D in homeland security and focus in Criminal Justice that can argue that all day long. But the suit was just a shame nonsense where some judge sided with Lindsay without question because of the argument made in court. That they were creating Cheap knock off and scamming customers. Which they weren't. They also were not there to argue their case.

But yeah. This is coming from a 3rd party who actually looked into it. Because they contacted me to distribute in the US through Walmart and Amazon. Which they can now anyways. But that doesn't mute the nonsense that I just read here. It's laughable. Either Way, all the had to do was change their piston design and they were no longer infringing on the patent. Right now, they are still selling almost 4x the amount that lindsay does and there are less than 30 returns or complaints about the product. So that's a good 286,000:30. When I bought my Lindsays .. idk. about 9 years ago. Within 6 attempts to return the products after breaking. I just threw it out. I was in Vietnam when I saw their shop and was looking for some good pottery tools and processes for my hobbies. I bought some of their stuff locally and I still use it whenever I need. It's over 15 years old now. I bought a good 3lbs of round gravers and I am still using them. Metal I got from Lindsay and other places tend to be brittle, even when pre sharpened.
 
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mitch

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"3. Lets get back to the BS about the seize and destroy.. Suitcases full of products. Yeah, didn't happen."

I'm pretty sure "Goldjockey" was just describing his own experience dealing with infringers in a completely different business and industry...
 

Goldjockey

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"3. Lets get back to the BS about the seize and destroy.. Suitcases full of products. Yeah, didn't happen."

I'm pretty sure "Goldjockey" was just describing his own experience dealing with infringers in a completely different business and industry...
True Mitch. The cases involved jewelry counterfeited from my copyrighted designs, and rest assured we did seize suitcases full of the stuff, and I personally oversaw its destruction at Academy Refining in Albuquerque.
 

Crazy Horse

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I bought a Lindsay several years ago. use it daily and have yet had a need to clean it. These knock off products might have a warranty, but I don't want to try and deal with a company that doesn't speak my language and I have absolutely no knowledge of. I can pickup the phone (and have done so) and speak directly with Steve Lindsay... in fluent English. Unfortunately I don't speak fluent Vietnamese. I do recall some Vietnamese phrases from my time in Vietnam while in the Army, but their not suitable for here.

Besides, "Buy American" is my motto.
 

monk

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Very interesting!

Faced with an intellectual property infringement situation in the 1990's, when the defendants (infringers) didn't show up for their day in Federal District Court , we made a motion for, and received a default Judgement, and permanent injunction which allowed us to seize and destroy literally suitcases full of infringing products. As I recall, we were also entitled to all of the profits (gross not net) that resellers had derived from the sale of the products.

Having Federal Marshals go out to enforce seizure orders, and watching piles of the infringing merchandise being melted into scrap, was satisfying in ways that anyone who's been through this will well understand.

Not commenting on Steve's case, or recommending this course of action for anyone else.
you're a hero in the eyes of a whole lotta people !
 

monk

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I bought a Lindsay several years ago. use it daily and have yet had a need to clean it. These knock off products might have a warranty, but I don't want to try and deal with a company that doesn't speak my language and I have absolutely no knowledge of. I can pickup the phone (and have done so) and speak directly with Steve Lindsay... in fluent English. Unfortunately I don't speak fluent Vietnamese. I do recall some Vietnamese phrases from my time in Vietnam while in the Army, but their not suitable for here.

Besides, "Buy American" is my motto.
not only lindsay, but grs. i've had a few problems that were solved using the phone. in my early grs days, john rohner was answering the phone. he was very helpful and always patient with me. what's that worth ??
 

Goldjockey

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you're a hero in the eyes of a whole lotta people !
Those were wild times, Monk.... I was just trying to keep food on the table. What I learned first hand is if you have something worth stealing (specifically something that makes money), as sure as the sun rises, someone will come along to take it. Like clockwork. They won't ask permission, and when you call them out, nine times out of ten, they'll keep stealing until you take direct and decisive action to stop them. When you do take action , they'll usually cry 'bloody murder' and curse your name to everyone they know. Many times they'll fight tooth and nail to keep on stealing, so it's important to document what you create, when you create it, and to have an intellectual property lawyer at the ready. You really can't be concerned with how people are going to view you when you go to the mat with a thief. If you win, you continue to eat. If they win, or you back off, they'll take everything worthwhile you've created, claim it for themselves, and you'll starve.

Plenty of folks hate my guts, Monk. I came into their businesses with court orders and subpoenas and confiscated in some cases tens of thousands in inventory, which was subsequently melted down. That was many years ago, but mention my name to certain store owners (and former store owners) across the Southwest, and believe me - I'm not popular with them, and I never will be. But that's OK. They were fine with illegally profiting from counterfeits of my copyrighted works, so I'm cool with the fact they're not fond of me.

If they ever do it again, I'll be back with a court order, and they know it, and that's the point. My job as an artist craftsman, and provider is to put food on my family's table. If someone makes it their business to steal food from my table, and bread from the mouths of my family, it is my job to make sure in no uncertain terms, they never make that mistake again.
 

Memorymaker

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I thought a patent only lasted for a certain number of years to give the inventor time to recoup development costs, establish the brand and develop the business without competition. I would have thought that Lindsay’s patent would have been in force longer than the patent permitted. I agree that knockoffs most times are not as good as the original in most cases. Although, sometimes they are better. When there is a price difference between the original and the knock off is a factor of 10 or more then something is wrong. Prices typically go down as the patent expires but this hasn’t happened with the major engraving equipment companies.

That said, I appreciate that GRS, Lindsay and Tira’s engravers are very high quality and built to last lifetimes. I know because I own all 3. However, many people are kept out of engraving because of the high cost of buying the equipment and education. The cheaper knockoffs allow people with less disposable income see if they have the talent and drive to learn to engrave without draining their life savings.

Protecting a design forever thru patents is just wrong in my opinion because it limits the competition forever and makes their products very expensive.
 

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