Holy cow I was told once to be careful about what you wish for. I guess you found out the hard way. In other words it's time to make hay while the sun is shining.Thanks for the comments. gc I think the right one is closer to what I'm looking for. I started this just because I wanted to learn it for myself didn't have any call for it,until last Thursday a customer came in to talk about some engraving for him seen this plate and now I have 3 rifles to do with big game on them now I have to figure this out.