Announcement: ATF making change to Transfers!

KCSteve

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Saw a post over at SayUncle's blog that could have an impact on folks here.

Here are the relevant pull quotes from his post:
Reversing an interpretation of the Gun Control Act that has been on the books for more than four decades, ATF today posted a ruling declaring any shipment of a firearm by a manufacturer (FFL) to any agent or business (e.g., an engineering-design firm, patent lawyer, testing lab, gun writer, etc.) for a bona fide business purpose to be a “transferâ€￾ under the Gun Control Act of 1968. As a consequence, legitimate business-related shipments will now require the recipient to complete a Form 4473 and undergo a Brady criminal background check. In many instances, these requirements will force shipments to a third party, thereby lengthening the process and the time that the firearm is in transit.

For more than four decades manufacturers have shipped firearms to agents for bona fide business purposes. ATF is unable to identify a single instance during the past 40 years where a single firearm shipped in reliance upon ATF’s rulings was used in a crime. This unwarranted reinterpretation of the law will cause significant disruption and additional costs for industry members and increase the cost of doing business, while doing nothing to advance public safety

You can real his full post (with links off to where he got the news) here
 

Christopher Malouf

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Steve, did you read the actual document on the ATF website??

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-1.pdf


1. It applies only to handguns shipped across state lines .... not rifles or shotguns. I would interpret this as more of a gun show hurdle where an FFL holder cannot ship a bunch of Saturday night specials to his buddy/employee on the show circuit.

2. It does not affect the return & repair license holders and does not affect anything that does not cross state lines.


p.s. What in the world is a "SayUncle" blog? :)
 
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KCSteve

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Chris

Uncle is a gun blogger and the link is to his blog.

I'm just passing along the head's up so no one gets blindsided - ATF is known to sometimes go off on a weird tangent and then get snippy about it.

And if someone in, say Missouri, wants to send you a handgun to engrave then it would affect you, would it not?
 

Christopher Malouf

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If someone wanted to send something to me, personally, then they would have a problem when I refuse the package.

Now if someone wanted to send something to the shop I do engraving for and that item never left that address, it would be a repair & return.

If I were on vacation in Florida, had my Airgraver in the hot tub with me and a rush monogram job came into the shop here in WV ... my buddy could not call me up in Florida and ship it to me claiming that I am his employee.

It's really just common sense Steve and eliminates a gray area.

I don't put much stock in blogs .... it's still someone elses' interpretation and more than likely twisted to stir controversy and attract readers. Kinda like the propaganda e-mails, that clog up my Blackberry, I wish people would stop forwarding to me.

Oh yeah ... one more thing ... say you go to work for a PMC. Even though you have gone through their own background check, you can not be issued a handgun unless you go through the Brady check.
 
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KSnyder

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Hey Chris, what's a Saturday night special? A small concealable handgun like a S&W Airweight? There is no such thing, it was term invented by the media to cloud an issue. And , there is no more "Brady check", its now a NIC check which is done in a matter of minutes, no waiting period.
I'm with KC on the issue of the ATF can be thugs without a legitimate purpose. As far as gun shows go, A 01 FFL holder cannot do any transfers anywhere , (gun shows) included without 4473 & NICS check. Anywhere the FFL is , is his place of business.
 

Christopher Malouf

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Dude ... read the ATF document before you pull the spell checker out next...lol! The "blog" interpretation is a big stretch from the actual document.

Some individuals ship to themselves when they travel (when they are really shipping to an employee) or use the license as a blanket to cover employees etc. etc.....


You're with "KC" on what? I would agree that, generally speaking, the government is not here to help.

btw ... Thank-you for correcting my terminology .... I'll use the term "cheap junk" instead :)
 
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fegarex

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I don't want to get this going as a political debate but actually the term "Saturday night special" originated in the 1920s with an influx of cheap H&R and similar pistols that could be bought for $10-$20 each long before the Gun Control Act.
There can be waiting periods depending on which state you reside.
For what it is worth, my family has been in the gun business since 1946 and we had a total of 3 compliance checks in those years. The people I encountered professional and friendly. On the same note, I was the same to them and didn't have anytihng to hide as well. You gotta remember most of them are just government employees waiting for retirement.....
Rex
 

Marrinan

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Thanks for bringing this up. I have a question for you FFL holders. I do very few guns in any year. My county sheriff is a pain in the *%# about where he will allow FFL lic. Pawn shops okay but my rural location could be para-military. It is okay I found away around the issue by buying the gun and contracting to sell it back. I had a customer bring a J. Stevens Model 32 half round 12 1/2 inch single shot .410 pistol manufactured in 1929 (retailed for $12 new)to have some engraving done on it (Deceased fathers name). Its retail value is $300 to $450 NIB condition. When doing research on the model I found much advice that the action be separated from the barrel and both thrown into separate rivers. The firearm act of 1934 classes it the same as machine gun. $250,000 fine and 10 years. If the customer had documentation as to its declaration of ownership amnisty form the sixties it could be transfered to new Class III FFL holder for $200 transfer few. Could also replace barrel worth 181/4 barrel under the table I guess. They are available. The question is why is this short barreled shot gun different than the Bond Arms 45/410 the Judge or a host of others? Thanks for your input in advance Fred
 

fegarex

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Fred,
I'm no lawyer when it comes to that and I have wondered the same. The only thing I know is the Bond is "actually" a .45 long Colt with a chamber that is too long. Thompson Center did something like that as well. I also think these are actually handguns and have to handled as such. Back in the day the Stevens as well as Marbles Game Getter were "short barrreled shotguns" as they had a stock that was either folding or able to attach. I don't know how the new guns get around it other than better lawyers.....
Rex
 

DKanger

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Back in the day the Stevens as well as Marbles Game Getter were "short barrreled shotguns" as they had a stock that was either folding or able to attach
The shotgun law was written to prevent "sawed off" guns and the ability to conceal them. Barrel had to be longer than 18.5" Since these models were "shotguns" they were included in the original ban list.
 

Sandy

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The key to the pistol that shoots a shotgun shell is the rifling in the barrel. If it has rifling it is a rifle or pistol. If it does not have rifling it is considered a shotgun and must have an 18 inch or longer barrel. That is how bond Taurus and Thompson can produce the product that they do.
Sandy
 

ED DELORGE

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Let's lighten this up!

I am just glad that us welfare recepients still don't have to take no drug test to get our green.
 

KSnyder

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There have been many documented cases of ATF abuse. Generally , they are just government employees, but depending on who's at the helm in the White house there can and has been abuse.If you doubt this, get a copy of American Rifleman or First Freedom and see for yourself. I know if guns are shipped legally they must go to a dealer or a 01 license holder. I'm not talking about those who chose to skirt the law. As far as the cheap pot metal guns go at least in my neck of the woods they are basically non-existent even at gun shows.
Btw, form 4473 has been recently changed, last Nov. 2009 and as far as it is NIC trumps Brady but some state like the peoples Republik of Kalifornia still impose a waiting period even after the government says you are ok.
 

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