Question: bake on matte lacquer

[jerrywh]

I am in the process of finishing a engraving on a sharps 74. I have been trying to use Matte Lacquer as a finish. I have seen this done by Ron smith and other to create a very attractive finish. However, when I tried it the finish was very dark and it obstructed the engraving to a great degree. The can of lacquer I had was a few years old but still seemed to function pretty well. The finish did not look at all like most of the ones Iv 'e seen. Is there more than one source for bake on matte lacquer or what ? Can anybody give me some advise on this ??

 

[fegarex]

Jerry,
Brownells sells a bake on lacquer in a matte however there are some cautions. Unless the surface is "rough" the stuff won't stick. They advise a bead blasting. For some time I used without but they must have changed the formula as I can't seem to get it to stick well. Any slight rubbing and it will scratch off.

 

[Sandy]

Jerry
There is something else to think about. There are two part paints that are being used for coating firearms. The one that I have worked with the most is Duracoat. It is applied by spray gun or airbrush. No baking required and it is pretty hardy and easy to apply. One thing that I have learned is that you can soak it acetone and depending on how old it is how much time it takes to desolve. This type of system is being used by several of the manufactures.

 

[BrianPowley]

I've also experienced a tremendous amount of frustration with Brownells Baked on Lacquer. I had Ron Smith walk me through this proceedure at great length,too.
I talked to Frank Brownell and his "tech" guy Dave Bennetts at Reno about their baked on lacquer finish not sticking to my gun. Just like Rex stated---it literally just peels of by rubbing,but it really does stick to the parts that are bead blasted.
Dave Bennetts said that for my purpose, my best bet was to get an aerosol can of matte lacquer at my local hardware store and use it on the gun.
Based on what I learned from Ron, I have to conclude that my surface wasn't properly prepared.
I really needed to get a good rust blue on the gun, then French Gray it. This will leave the surface etched enough that the lacquer will stick.
The gun I tried it on was finished with well-worn 400 grit paper---making it closer to 600 grit, and that is way too smooth for baked on lacquer.
If your color is too dark, you've scorched the lacquer. Although the instructions give a temperature range from 300 to 350 degrees, you have to remember that the baking times are critical.....30 minutes for 300 degrees, 20 minutes for 350.
I bought a good thermometer for my oven and made sure that my temps were consistent.

 

[jerrywh]

I know I didn't scorch this stuff. I can't bead blast Bolino engraving. Ron's guns have a lot of very fine bolino portraits on them so my situation is somewhat the same as his. This engraving was finished with about 600 grit micro finishing paper and then color case hardened by turnbull. The bolino parts have been french grayed back. It seemed to stick pretty well but I never left it on long enough for a fair test. It obscure the engraving so much that I just washed it off. It had the appearance of being way too thick even with one coat. I took it out of the aerosol can and tried to thin it with bake on lacquer thinner. Guess what? It won't thin . It congeals. It really messed up my airbrush. If it won't thin with bake on lacquer thinner it makes me believe it isn't lacquer. It won't thin with regular lacquer thinner either. I'm thinking of trying the two part Dupont clear coat with flattener in it. The type that is used to clear coat automobiles. Very expensive but if it works , Who cares?? What think you all??

 

[Ron Smith]

I am wondering if they changed the formula too, but I always rust blue before applying the lacquer except for photography purposes, and in that case I leave the 400 grit finish. The matte lacquer cuts the shine, and kills the grain of the sanding, and it will photograph nicely.

It improves the quality of the photo quite a bit on anything you might want to photograph. It comes off with acetone, but oil it good after you get it off and let that cure for a while, well oiled. Of course it must be really cleaned right before lacquering.

The darkness occurs if you don't get the blue remover off quickly also, and neutralize it. Soda and soap (grease cutting dish detergent) and water will do this, but dry it carefully, as the blue remover will continue to act and darken. Go over it with a red eraser if you need to bring up the detail again and brighten it. You don't want a real coarse etch either. Watch it carefully as it will continue to act as I said, and oil it heavily and let it sit for a while, but keep an eye on it as it will darken even after applying oil. You also can apply a rust retardent to it. You will have to clean it thoroughly again before you lacquer it. Don't let it get too hot, or it will darken and also turn a yellowish color as Brian said.

Bead blasting? I have had detail removed by this process on fine work, so I am a little reluctant to use it. The etch needs to be fine so as to not confuse the detail of very fine work. I also don't go true to Bulino techniques, as it is not nearly intense enough to get good tonal range from light to dark. I do thousands of lines to get darker textures for the sake of intensity. I want to be able to appreciate the work at arms length, not with a magnifying glass as I feel it diminishes the value of the art.

Hope this helps.

I would reccomend playing with the process until you get your system down where you know it works before applying it to an actual piece.

Ron S

 

[jerrywh]

My sincere thanks to everybody. I am going to buy a new can and do as you recomend.
Nothing good is ever easy to learn. You guys are a national treasure.

 

[Phil Coggan]

Spraying gloss laquer with a can or airbrush at around six to nine inches gives a gloss finish, further back gives you matt.

Phil

 

[fegarex]

Jerry,
Brownells does make it in a pint can or something so you can use an airbrush or touch up gun. It sprays better than the aerosol. Perhaps it might stick to case. I just have dumped the idea of using it because I couldn't make it stick to my french gray but mine wasn't rust blue.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jerrywh

Go with extreme caution with two pack automotive paints. They generally are highly carsiogenic and as toxic as you can get.Spray painters wear full breathing gear and suits spraying that stuff. They are incredibley dangerous without the right gear.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[jerrywh]

Andrew.
I am aware of the toxic two part paints. I had a auto paint and body shop for about 20 years. The stuff will kill you if your foolish.
Rex. I can't find the matte baking lacquer at Brownell's in a pint can.
Phil. Doesn't the stuff come out awfull grainy when shot on dry like that??

 

[fegarex]

Jerry,
I looked online and can't find it either. I will have to look in my catalog tomorrow.
Perhaps it was discontinued.

 

[Sandy]

this is the Duracoat web site: http://www.lauerweaponry.com/

check it out. the instructions say to give the metal a light bead blast but I have used it on slick metal and it has stuck to it.

 

[jerrywh]

The problem lock. So far I just waxed it.

 

[tonytigerhk45]

I have been thinking of trying some powder coating paint it comes in clear. Has anybody tried this or know
about it.
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=845&itemType=CATEGORY

 

[BrianPowley]

I hear violin varnish is also a good durable finish. I've never tried it, but I'm planning on testing it out this year on some gun parts.

BTW....Jerry, that picture is a pretty good looking problem from this angle.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Jere
What I have used after removing case colors from a scene is a very thin (watered down) coat of Caseys Tru Oil. Doug Turnbull gave me some and you put it on with a cotton swab. It is shiney though not matt. You can also use Krylon Tuffilm fixative. It is actually a plastic spray used in artwork. But it too would be shinier rather than matt. Whatever you use get rid of all the wax you said you just put on the action.
The engraving looks real good Jere.

Marty

 

[jerrywh]

Marty. Thanks for the compliment. I think the engraving looks pretty good but I don't like the color at all. It is somewhat more gray looking than the photo. Almost solid gray.
I am depressed over the color.

 

[fegarex]

Jerry,
It does look really nice! If it is too dark, do like Ron suggested and use a red eraser or a pink pearl eraser to brighten it up. I also use Brownells stock rubbing compound (the orange stuff) to brighten up overall jobs but perhaps if you were careful, you could use it to do just the areas needed. The stock rubbing compound has an oil base and was originally used to clean ink rollers in the printing industry. Just stay away from the case colors however. It doesn't take much to wash the colors out.

 

[tonytigerhk45]

Yea a big red rubber eraser works great after it's been greyed. The bluing makes it look like the sun is setting
in the background. Wonderful work.