Critique Request Beginner "Fine" Tendril Practice Critiique Request - Mixed Hand Push and Air

Crossbolt

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I'm hoping someone might offer their views of areas I can improve on in this latest attempt at tendrils. It's a 2x2 GRS steel practice plate. Primary lines and "ringing" were cut using a 90 on an air engraver. All the details were cut by hand push tool in an attempt to get a feel for that; flat for the border nick and dot and 115/116 mostly for the inside work on the tendrils. I'll keep my self critique to myself as I'm interesting to see if anyone has any comments how they compare to my notes. The final view has a light coat of acrylic black paint and the layout shows my start point before cutting. I think there's plenty to critique here :)

Thanks for any feedback.

Jeremy
 

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gcmeleak

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Good looks pretty good guy but you might want to invest in a burnishing tool so it'll help you remove some of them ugly scratches in the center of your design and burnishing tools to have a learning curve I'm still learning mine good job skill comes from diligence
 

monk

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a very "busy" design. you need to concentrate on drawing much smoother scroll. one would think such a "busy" design would hide the flats and bumps. my guess would be that you rushed thru the drawing. a pain in the rear, but slow down a bit. after each scroll is drawn, look at it and correct bad spots before going on to the next one.
 

Sam

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I would advise perfecting a much smaller amount of scrollwork, perhaps 1/8 of what you have here. When you have that down, then you can expand to cover a greater area.

One thing that's hurting your design is the uninterrupted backbone of whitespace. Scrolls don't look so good with this treatment. This whitespace line is wonky in many places and the composition needs quite a bit of work.

You've worked really hard on this and I applaud your efforts. Some time spent with pencil and sketchpad is a must, and be sure to post your progress.
 

Southern Custom

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I'll add to what Sam mentioned based on my own experience. I'm of the opinion that engraving should be separated into two types of practice. With the graver, only very basic lines, circles and then scroll backbones at first. Paper is the place to learn and practice design work. From my observation, learning to cut is typically the easier of the two unless you have a background in art. Therefore the bulk of study should be with a pencil in hand. You can't cut what you can't draw as they say. The beginners who have gotten the best results here are often the ones who submitted drawings for critique first. You can only cut a piece in steel once. On paper it can be erased and reworked to your hearts content.
You obviously have fairly good control of the graver, therefore with a good design to start with, you should be able to get a good result in steel. The viewer can overlook and forgive so so cutting as long as the design is well conceived.
As I mentioned, this is based on my early experience. My first efforts looked like a kindergarten art project compared to your work. You are well on your way to doing some nice work.
Keep posting and great effort.
 

Crossbolt

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One thing that's hurting your design is the uninterrupted backbone of whitespace. Scrolls don't look so good with this treatment. This whitespace line is wonky in many places and the composition needs quite a bit of work.

You've worked really hard on this and I applaud your efforts. Some time spent with pencil and sketchpad is a must, and be sure to post your progress.

Sam
Thanks for taking the time to comment; much appreciated. Yes definitely a lot more sketching needed. I'm not too worried about time on "large pieces" since I view this as basically a cutting practice with attempts at pattern thrown in as well. I certainly want to avoid developing bad habits through that approach though.

I'm interested in your comment on the backbone as what I'm doing certainly isn't classical scroll. In my own feeble defense what I'm after in the long term and what I'm trying to get a feel for, in my own messy way, is a type of pattern occasionally encountered in guns from Scotland and the North of England. I'm attaching an example here. I'd be very interested if there's any further critique of how mimicking it could improve beyond the already great input.

One thing I'm particularly working on in my sketching is the variation on pattern derived from variation in the length of the tendrils and irregularity in the branching and curl direction. I've yet to discern a reasonable "rule" or "rules" from my experiments thus far. But, as indicated, much more drawing needed and maybe I'll notice something.

Thanks again.

Jeremy
 

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Crossbolt

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Layne
Thanks for the input.
Yes I find drawing this type of pattern particularly tricky as it seems to need a slightly different drawing technique. So far I've been tending to draw as I'd cut
However with this that's much more time consuming to draw that way because the solid backbone requires a lot of "parallel" line drawing.
What I've been experimenting with is using very thick tips for the vine like backbone then switching to finer tip to vary "detailing" options.
The drawback to that is it doesn't get my mind thinking in terms of cutting as I draw. I'm still pondering the best approach and trade offs.
Thanks
Jeremy
 

Sam

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Jeremy: Ok, I see where you're going with this. Thanks for posting the example of this style on a gun. I can't say I like this style though. To me it looks very amateurish and done by a poor designer. This is just my opinion and there are probably others who love it. I will say that if you're trying to emulate this style, you are on the right track with the example you posted earlier.
 

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Jeremy, good try.
I think the mass of the rectangular presentation worked against you. This strap work works better in a more linear format
If you look at your example gun a little more you will notice the the strap scroll design is a little more regulated than your example.
The straps are more controlled and regulated left and right and use a lot less noticeable added infill tendrils.
This gives the overall pattern a softer presentation.
As you point out, this is a rather unusual strap work scroll sometimes found on guns built and engraved in Scotland.
Not every ones cup of tea but can be quite nice if done well.
I'm sure you will work it out for yourself. best of luck with it.
 

Crossbolt

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Jeremy, good try.
The straps are more controlled and regulated left and right and use a lot less noticeable added infill tendrils.

John
Thanks for the comments. Yes, the most difficult thing I'm trying to figure out at the moment is the infill tendrils. They're very typically, although not always very subdued and I've not got even close to that yet. I can't even make out clearly how it was done on the photographs I have. Some of the examples are almost random from what I can make out and I definitely can't see that working. From the examples I've culled it seems to be what could be be described as variations on fine English scroll infilling variations on a solid backbone "vine" which may or may not intertwine. Lot's to experiment with and further messes to be made :)
Jeremy
 

Big-Un

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I'm glad you posted the picture of a piece actually done in this manner, and I'm in agreement with Sam on this one. My thoughts ran the gamut from lousy design to very confusing, but seeing one actually cut floored me. But, just because one is cut in this configuration doesn't necessarily give it credence. I've seen many examples of poor engraving passed as "good engraving done by a master..." etc that never should have left the shop, but, who am I to criticize such. You have done a fine job emulating this design and you have recognized the flaws in cutting, much to your credit.

Bill
 

Crossbolt

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Dang ......... I'm definitely less than an amateur .......l liked it

Well like me, you're not alone in your unusual tastes :) Good examples ( unlike my learning piece ) can be found in some folks' collections. There's one in the Queen's gun room in Sandringham for example.
At the risk of diverging a bit the design might be called Celtic revival. The primary backbones/ scrolls/vines are based on European Celtic art typically referred to as La Tene style after an archaeological location. That accounts for the "primitive " or simplistic overall style. Something that appeals to me but is certainly not the norm.

It looks very simple but it's a devil to get the infill right.

Jeremy
 

dogcatcher

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Well like me, you're not alone in your unusual tastes :) Good examples ( unlike my learning piece ) can be found in some folks' collections. There's one in the Queen's gun room in Sandringham for example.
At the risk of diverging a bit the design might be called Celtic revival. The primary backbones/ scrolls/vines are based on European Celtic art typically referred to as La Tene style after an archaeological location. That accounts for the "primitive " or simplistic overall style. Something that appeals to me but is certainly not the norm.

It looks very simple but it's a devil to get the infill right.

Jeremy

That's 3 of us. March to the tune of your own drum and make your own music. If people in the past hadn't done there own thing, where would we be today, listening to the banging of war drums???
 

BrianPowley

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I believe everyone else has pointed out the "nuts and bolts" of tool control, technique, style, yada,yada,yada.
You can have the best layout engraved horribly (amateur), or you can have a horrible layout engraved very well.
This falls some where close to the the latter.
 

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