Cirelli grind for a perfect Parallel heel on an onglette with the dual angle fixture

[Mike Cirelli]

This is done by grinding the top of the onglette graver holding it by the tang. I use 45 degree mark as my 0. Left and right at 15, and 75 degrees to grind a 30 degree angle on each side of the top of the graver. This is done the same as I showed for a flat graver in a previous thread. This will allow the graver to fit in the dual angle fixture the same every time. Then I grind a 45 face holding the graver with the newly ground top. Then I set my post dial to 15 degrees for my heel. I leave the dial lock screw loose. On a ceramic wheel start at the top corner of the face and roll it down to the tip, do this on both sides and you will get a perfect parallel heel as you can see in the pictures.

The 1st and 2nd picture show the top grind, the 3rd and 4th the heel.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Mike

I think you should be named genius of the year!!! That is very clever.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Tim Wells]

I was just sitting here this morning wishing someone would show how to sharpen one of those darn things. FINALLY I'm set free! Thanks Mike!

 

[Sam]

Brilliant, Mike! I have an Alexandre-style onglette with one side heeled parallel to the face (for extremely deep circular cuts). It's very tricky to sharpen by hand, and I've not taught it in my classes because of this. This seems to solve that problem. A thousand thanks for going to the trouble to shoot photos and post them. I will add your posts to the Tips Archive.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Thanks Guys, It's my pleasure to contribute. The professionals that visit this forum have help me along my path the least I can do is try to share some of my discoveries.
After I did this top grind on the flats I couldn't wait to try it on the onglette. I just knew it would work and it did. I did the same grind on a very narrow onglette and it worked just as well. I haven't tried it with anything but a 45 face yet. But I think it may work with any face angle. One thing I didn't show is a modified bolt for the fixture that has an extended length to make it easier to sway the front dial back and forth.

Andrew I think genius of the year is a bit much but I appreciate your kind words.
Sam I'm glad this will help in your teachings. You are a valuable asset to the future of this art. If you need someone to demonstrate it at one of your classes I'll be glad to take a little vacation
Tim you gotta be kidin, right.

 

[monk]

ok, mike : one from the guy who dislikes onglettes : what does this do to improve the graver ? does it make it less prone to break ? what will this graver do that my 90, 70, or 116 wont do ? i've never used the onglette in steel without problems !

 

[jetta77]

That's great, I learned to put a heel on by hand but seem to get a different result each time. Plus the photo's are just plain sweet. For a jeweler onglettes are a must, maybe not for steel though.
Jeff

 

[John B.]

Monk, Jeff. Not to be disagreeable but.........
The ongelette has a place in steel engraving and all other metals IMO.
I don't want to speak for him but the great work Sam Welch did for many years in the past was all done using mostly a #3 ongelette.
Of course he continues to do great work but I'm not sure about his current choice of gravers.
Maybe Sam (TOS) will jump in here if he isn't tied up with a Reno rush.
The grind and method that Mike Cirelli so kindly shared with us is a winner and is almost a duplicate for the graver shape that many of the wonderful engravers with a Russian background use to create their fantastic sculptured work. That, and a world of skill derived mostly from their past in die making.
I recommend that you try them in areas of sculpture and for other things.
Onglettes are what I use to cut all my lines for line borders or line gold inlay. They are very forgiving in maintaining an even line width.

Jeff, congratulations on the beautiful plate you just posted. Wonderful work and design for only four months.

Best, John B.

 

[Mike Fennell]

Brilliant! This is the type of posting that keeps me addicted to this website.

Mike Fennell

 

[Sam]

Winston Churchill uses onglettes for most of his work.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Monk There's no real advantage as far as strength of the tip. The biggest advantage to this grind is repetition and accuracy. There is an advantage to learning how to use an ongelette as John mentioned. Properly sharpened tools is half the battle. I used to hate using flats until I learned how to us them, now I find it hard to keep one out of my hand. If you ever need some fine lines the onglette can be a very good choice. Depending on the size onglette, with some precise sharpening I'm able to lay 10 to 15 lines within a mm with some depth not scratches. Others may even be able to do better than that. I have my favorites just like everybody, but to me learning how to use all gravers to their maximum ability is a fun and sometimes a frustrating challenge. I believe this will help many who use the GRS sharpening system to sharpen ongelettes. If you don't find it useful so be it then don't use it, you don't have to sign up for it and it didn't cost you anything.

 

[John B.]

Winston Churchill uses onglettes for most of his work.

Thanks for the reminder, Sam.
I had forgotten that about Winston.
And using the Cirelli grind one can lay the tool over quite a way to create a flair if desired.

John B.

 

[JJ Roberts]

Mike....I'm glad you brought this subject up. The onglette is the perfect tool for push engraver and the hammer and chisel technique. I like the 15 degree heel, and a 50 degree face. I am glad this subject reached the Tips Archives. Keep experimenting that is what it is all about...it never ends. Keep up the good work.

 

[Sam]

I should try an onglette for more of my scroll cutting. I suspect the curved sides produce a very nice cut.

As an interesting side note, when I was at Churchill's home in October 2004 I was examining the gravers and punches on his workbench. There among his various chisels was an onglette shaped with a uniform parallel heel. I asked him about it later and his reply was (paraphrasing) "I sharpened it that way to try it, but I don't care for it or use it. If you want it I'll send it to you". So for what it's worth, Winston's onglettes are sharpened by hand with a conventional (non-parallel) heel.

Alexandre in Belgium uses a one-sided parallel heel onglette for extremely deep cutting of curves in diamond setting. The opposite curved side of his onglette is flattened so the graver only cuts on one side.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

This was posted more for the exact holding ability of the graver in the dual angle fixture. The heel can be ground to anyones preference. The parallel heel doesn't do much for me either but it is nice for straight lines.
A little more flare at the tip as John mentioned is very easily done.

 

[monk]

GENTS- I NEVER ARGUE against SUCCESS ! except those bleepin onglettes have never worked in my hand. then again, i've never left one in a potato overnight to see if that would help. i'll study mikes' foto again, that may prove useful ! it's possible, i suppose, the ones i got years ago from gesswein were intended for soft metals. not really sure about that.

 

[Sam]

Very true, Mike. The key here is that you can now properly HOLD an onglette for heeling with this sharpening method. I think it's awesome.

Monk: The onglette is a common graver on a stonesetter's bench. I haven't used 'em for engraving much either.

 

[Mack]

Hey Mike, It works with a Crocker sharpener too. I never use my onglette but I have one and couldn't get it to stay in place in the sharpener but it works now.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Monk the old tool steel won't hold up very well against most steel. Sam's right they are used more by the setter. I like them for trimming around prongs that have been lifted, before they are beaded down on the stone. I did find a nice use for this graver other than setting yesterday. It works great for raising teeth for inlay or overlay. It raises up a wicked tooth.

Mack I'm glad it works with the Crocker.

The heel can be put on the same as you would for a square graver also. It's just that the parallel heel looked so pretty I had to post it

This top grind works for round gravers also and just about any graver that needs shaped on top.

 

[dlilazteca]

Alexandre in Belgium uses a one-sided parallel heel onglette for extremely deep cutting of curves in diamond setting. The opposite curved side of his onglette is flattened so the graver only cuts on one side.

Ok visiting this old thread, becase for the last week im Studying under Haysam, learning the basics to stone setting, if im not mistaken he studied under Alexandre in Belgium, ive seen the one sided onglette you mention, he actually has many sizes and there is a right and a left dedicated ones.
Ive been using the onglette with no heel, at least for me it was a total learning curve, i had to spend a whole day learning to cut strait lines again, never thought id be doing that again...hahaha

But i have a new uses for the onglette. You should give them a try.



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