mitch
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2007
- Messages
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i'm kinda hoping some of my early stuff is quietly rusting away in a landfill somewhere...
Help, please: Colt SAA, Help identifying Engraver.
- Thread starter w4wx
- Start date
i'm kinda hoping some of my early stuff is quietly rusting away in a landfill somewhere...
I know what you mean. There's no doubt that in the beginning of our careers many of us (including me) turned $500 guns into $100 guns with poor engraving!
DakotaDocMartin
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Hey guys:
I was serious when I asked for help identifying the engraver of my Colt SAA. I am far from an expert on engraving of any kind. 22 of the 23 responses had nothing in the way of answering my question. See, I don't know if the category of the work is good, bad or ugly.... But I do know, according to your posts, they qualify in two of the three categories. Does anyone know of a more friendly site, maybe of amateur in nature, that is interested in helping?
Bill Gallier CCA
I was serious when I asked for help identifying the engraver of my Colt SAA. I am far from an expert on engraving of any kind. 22 of the 23 responses had nothing in the way of answering my question. See, I don't know if the category of the work is good, bad or ugly.... But I do know, according to your posts, they qualify in two of the three categories. Does anyone know of a more friendly site, maybe of amateur in nature, that is interested in helping?
Bill Gallier CCA
I doubt you will find a more knowledgeable group of folks than on this site. We do like to rib each other and have known each other for a long time. Sorry it was at your expense. Hang in with us and maybe someone will be able to tell you.
unclejim1955
Elite Cafe Member
I'm really new to engraving myself, so I can't tell who by looking at work. However, it does look a lot like some guns that have been posted here since January by an engraver in Mexico. Maybe one of the others knows who I'm talking about and I'm probably way off base. I will have to agree with you. I believe this site is awesome as far as what others post. I check it several times a day, but won't ask a question. Even this comment is likely to be ganged up on
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I really doubt if you will find out the engraver. More than likely the initials on the ejector shroud are of the owner, not the engraver. Unless there is a name elsewhere like under the grips it would be near impossible to determine who did the work. I am going to be diplomatic here but the work is not of a "prolific" engraver in which a style could be easily identified. That said, knowing the engraver would not add to the value of the gun.
unclejim1955
Elite Cafe Member
Thank you Rex. I guess I should get over my "I'm not good enough to comment" feeling and start saying what I see. To someone without any background in engraving, they may look at this piece and say "Oh, that's awesome". In fact the reason that it is so difficult to identify is that it looks like the first work of almost everyone. Bluntly stated. This may be the work of someone who went on to be a grand master, but at this point is in many respects not good work. The scrolls, in particular, have flat spots, elbows, elongations and proportional problems. Mistakes I still make. So, like Rex said, knowing the engraver would not add to the value of the gun. I hope this helps.
Crazy Horse
Elite Cafe Member
You might try the FEGA web site. There are many more professional engraves there and they might be able to help. Google FEGA.
Crazy Horse, I think you will find them all over here as well if not more so.
UncleJim's comments are spot on!
UncleJim's comments are spot on!
Thanks... I understand about the value.. I am a Colt 1st and 2nd Generation collector. I took this 3rd Gen as a trade for partial payment for a 1891 Colt SAA. I was just curious as to the engraver. The gun came from a gun show in Texas so maybe it was done in Mexico.
Thanks again.
Bill Gallier CCA
Florida
Who did it? It was Tom Hartliep. He had signed it under the grips. Why I didn't look is beyond me.
Tom Hartliep-Engraver - Exquisite, intricate, and ornate aptly describe the engraving art of Tom Hartliep. He still engraves entirely by hand with a graver’s chisel and hammer and his home-grown graver’s vise, following the teachings of his brother, Neil Hartliep.
Backing up the bus for a little background, Tom Hartliep was raised by his brother Neil, who was his elder by twenty years. After WW II, Neil began work as a gunsmith, and did considerable engraving in his own shop. After some years of custom engraving work, he was commissioned by the NRA to teach engraving at the Trinidad School of Gunsmithing in Colorado, then later at Rochester, New York and Susanville, California.
During this tenure as engraving instructor for the NRA engraving program, Neil wrote what has become the standard text and manual for curriculum in engraving at the NRA schools. The title of the book is The Basics of Firearms Engraving.
Under this experienced tutorship Tom apprenticed under his brother and learned the art of firearms engraving, and has refined that skill with twenty years of experience. Tom recalls back to his time learning under his brother’s guidance, that Neil wouldn't allow him to commission work, or sell his engraving, until such a time as he considered Tom’s work that of a master engraver. It wasn't until 1987 that Tom received his first commissioned work, and that was at a gun show in Tucson, Arizona, when Neil consented to allow him to receive compensation for his work.
Since that time, Tom has become a very accomplished engraver in his own right, specializing in American Scroll and English Scroll designs. Each and every piece that he engraves is uniquely different, as he has no “set” patterns. His work includes gold and silver inlays, wildlife, and other scenic engraving, but his specialty is the scroll-work and his favorite is English Scroll.
Tom does a variety of firearms, rifles and shotguns, but his favorites, and his specialty are handguns, with Colt single-actions his forte. Each piece is individually engraved, with a unique pattern specific to that firearm, by hand, one stroke of the graver’s hammer at a time. Although he takes great pains and time with the engraving, his pricing structure for his work is quite reasonable, shockingly so.
Engraving is available in anywhere from 10% to full coverage. He makes a point of explaining that those guns on which he only does a 10%-50% coverage on, he always makes sure that the pattern is such that more engraving can be added later if the customer desires more coverage than first requested. He indicated to me during our interview that the vast majority of those people wanting less than 50% coverage nearly always come back for more once they get their piece back.
Tom has never advertised his work, relying solely on word of mouth referrals for engraving jobs. At the time of this writing he is about three to four months backlogged with work, and has yet to increase his very reasonable pricing structure due to demands for his engraving.
If you contact Tom about engraving work, be advised that he won’t engrave anything but firearms, and then only quality pieces. He is a straight shooter, and easy to talk with and can make some really outstanding suggestions for your projects based on his vast engraving experience.
Contact Information.
Tom Hartliep
PO Box 144
Priest River, ID 83856
Tom has no website at this time.
All the information and photos of some of his work is here. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/archive_open_sight.htm/17
Tom Hartliep-Engraver - Exquisite, intricate, and ornate aptly describe the engraving art of Tom Hartliep. He still engraves entirely by hand with a graver’s chisel and hammer and his home-grown graver’s vise, following the teachings of his brother, Neil Hartliep.
Backing up the bus for a little background, Tom Hartliep was raised by his brother Neil, who was his elder by twenty years. After WW II, Neil began work as a gunsmith, and did considerable engraving in his own shop. After some years of custom engraving work, he was commissioned by the NRA to teach engraving at the Trinidad School of Gunsmithing in Colorado, then later at Rochester, New York and Susanville, California.
During this tenure as engraving instructor for the NRA engraving program, Neil wrote what has become the standard text and manual for curriculum in engraving at the NRA schools. The title of the book is The Basics of Firearms Engraving.
Under this experienced tutorship Tom apprenticed under his brother and learned the art of firearms engraving, and has refined that skill with twenty years of experience. Tom recalls back to his time learning under his brother’s guidance, that Neil wouldn't allow him to commission work, or sell his engraving, until such a time as he considered Tom’s work that of a master engraver. It wasn't until 1987 that Tom received his first commissioned work, and that was at a gun show in Tucson, Arizona, when Neil consented to allow him to receive compensation for his work.
Since that time, Tom has become a very accomplished engraver in his own right, specializing in American Scroll and English Scroll designs. Each and every piece that he engraves is uniquely different, as he has no “set” patterns. His work includes gold and silver inlays, wildlife, and other scenic engraving, but his specialty is the scroll-work and his favorite is English Scroll.
Tom does a variety of firearms, rifles and shotguns, but his favorites, and his specialty are handguns, with Colt single-actions his forte. Each piece is individually engraved, with a unique pattern specific to that firearm, by hand, one stroke of the graver’s hammer at a time. Although he takes great pains and time with the engraving, his pricing structure for his work is quite reasonable, shockingly so.
Engraving is available in anywhere from 10% to full coverage. He makes a point of explaining that those guns on which he only does a 10%-50% coverage on, he always makes sure that the pattern is such that more engraving can be added later if the customer desires more coverage than first requested. He indicated to me during our interview that the vast majority of those people wanting less than 50% coverage nearly always come back for more once they get their piece back.
Tom has never advertised his work, relying solely on word of mouth referrals for engraving jobs. At the time of this writing he is about three to four months backlogged with work, and has yet to increase his very reasonable pricing structure due to demands for his engraving.
If you contact Tom about engraving work, be advised that he won’t engrave anything but firearms, and then only quality pieces. He is a straight shooter, and easy to talk with and can make some really outstanding suggestions for your projects based on his vast engraving experience.
Contact Information.
Tom Hartliep
PO Box 144
Priest River, ID 83856
Tom has no website at this time.
All the information and photos of some of his work is here. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/archive_open_sight.htm/17
unclejim1955
Elite Cafe Member
That's awesome. I'm glad you figured it out. You obviously have some of his earlier work. In the top photo you can see that his style is still basically the same, but now everything is smooth and proportional. It would be cool to compare it with his most recent revolver. Even if it doesn't increase the dollar value to know who did it, I think it makes it a personal treasure. Nice snag.
DakotaDocMartin
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I wonder how this Pre-1987 SAA got out then?
I assume the Colt was purchased in 1979 and was engraved at a later date.
I called and talked to Tom yesterday. He did not start keeping pictures until 1995. I have sent him a few pictures of the Colt. If anyone is interested I will post his answer here. Tom is 81 and still kicking.
Bill
unclejim1955
Elite Cafe Member
I suppose a number of things could account for it being out there. Maybe it wasn't commissioned, he just did it for practice. Maybe he didn't sell it, but gave it away or it was stolen or some other reason. See if he can send you a recent picture of a SAA he has done. It would be interesting to me to compare the two.
Bill,Never know Neil had a brother who engraved,what ever happen to Neil's son? he was an engraver. Got to meet Neil at an NRA convention in Philly many years ago. J.J.
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