Help, please: Copper Inlaying techniques

[Ryan138]

Hello everyone! I hope you are all reading this healthy and happy. I come today looking for help in setting up my plain for inlaying.
I have watched some videos on the topic and still am having trouble getting my desired result of the soft copper to actually “inlay”.

If anyone would mind explaining to me the technique you guys use to achieve this it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[monk]

i have only inlaid copper into hobo nickels. only very small pieces were needed. very few, light hammer blows were used to clinch the inlays. one problem that can occur with copper inlay is "eork hardning". the more you hammer, the harder the copper becomes. my tiny inlays were done in undercut channels. i didn't hammer directly, i used smal brass punches to force the copper into the desired channels. how large are the pieces to be inlaid? you have to thoroughly annea the copper, or you'll likely have problems.

 

[Ryan138]

i have only inlaid copper into hobo nickels. only very small pieces were needed. very few, light hammer blows were used to clinch the inlays. one problem that can occur with copper inlay is "eork hardning". the more you hammer, the harder the copper becomes. my tiny inlays were done in undercut channels. i didn't hammer directly, i used smal brass punches to force the copper into the desired channels. how large are the pieces to be inlaid? you have to thoroughly annea the copper, or you'll likely have problems.

Thanks for responding monk! It is actually for hobo nickels. I believe it’s 28g dead soft copper. I have a tool made for inlaying that a good friend made me but thinking about what you’re saying I am probably hitting it to hard and too much as it flattens fast. I think my biggest issue is my channels but I’m having a hard time grasping at how deep, and style I should approach to make them more beneficial. I haven’t found many videos explaining how but just showing the inlay so I’m really grabbing at straws in terms of what exactly they are doing.

 

[jerrywh]

With copper it depends to a large degree on the size of the inlay. Copper will take teeth if the mother material is hard enough for the teeth to stand up but it usually isn't. The option to use for a copper inlay much larger than 3/16' in diameter is to do it in sections and alternate depths. Vertical walls for the cavities are best. The more shallow sections can be anchored to the deeper ones. One option is wire in a depressed section.
Consider that I am used to working on softer steel than most modern engravers are.

 

[MoldyJim]

I have had some luck inlaying copper into softer metal. Not a pro by any means so take this for what it's worth...
Good undercuts are best, I didn't have a lot of luck making only toothed type inlays.

The copper has to be as soft as possible. The less alloy in it the better. Phosphor bronze work well, it's basically copper with phosphor added to drive off oxygen. Not really metallic alloy IIRC.

A firm first hit helps, locking the copper in place and not moving it again makes it easier to make it stick.
A textured punch to keep it from slipping is important.

I have a 1/4" punch with a fine checkering on the face. The material flows more on the side away from the punch. Seems to keep the top from expanding and focuses the expansion in the undercuts.

I have a small jewelers hammer with straight checkering on one end and diamond checkering on the other, it also works well to set inlays.

I'll see if I can find some picks to post later.

 

[Dave London]

Under cut the channel make the channel about 3/4 depth of wire diameter. anneal the wire just before use, copper just sitting around can be come hard MTC YMMV

 

[Scottyd]

On larger pieces of copper or brass inlay on nickels I have cheated and used a little piece of low temperature solder in the channel to make sure it stays in. Please don’t beat me up as I realize it is blasphemy but I can only stand so much failure.

 

[Benny]

hey guys i also have a question about copper inlay. I have 0.8mm copper wire (brass). I would like to invest this in two numbers. Does anyone have experience with this? Which engraver should I use etc .....

 

[Grizzland]

I'm just starting my inlay journey, and I have had 0% results so far. Purchased "Dead Soft" copper wire, 18g with a .75mm engraved groove. Trying to estimate the depth has been the trick. Any suggestions for this? I have tried raised teeth in the bed but, it seems the cooper isn't that malleable for that. I have also tried to anneal the wire with flame right before...
my next try's are:
1. deeper groove
2. larger undercut at the base of the groove
3. don't use the graver hand piece for the install. ( I'll have to find a brass punch )

On the right track? Any other suggestions?

Thanks for the help

 

[monk]

I'm just starting my inlay journey, and I have had 0% results so far. Purchased "Dead Soft" copper wire, 18g with a .75mm engraved groove. Trying to estimate the depth has been the trick. Any suggestions for this? I have tried raised teeth in the bed but, it seems the cooper isn't that malleable for that. I have also tried to anneal the wire with flame right before...
my next try's are:
1. deeper groove
2. larger undercut at the base of the groove
3. don't use the graver hand piece for the install. ( I'll have to find a brass punch )

On the right track? Any other suggestions?

Thanks for the help

 

[monk]

i think u r in a hurry. after much practice on junk material you'll likely get the desired result. dont waste money on dead soft copper. make yer own. u can get several hundred feet of copper of many guages at yer local scrap yard for very little cash compared to buying from a supplier. good luck

 

[SamW]

I have never had any luck using teeth with copper. Use undercuts. I use a "dead blow" hammer that has lead shot in a casing so there is no bounce from the hammer. Make sure the nickel is solidly mounted so there is no bounce when you hit the copper.

 

[AllenClapp]

A good discussion of inlay is on YouTube.com. It is by Brian Powley and was made at one of Scott Pilkington's early Engrave-Ins.

It may start at about 10 minutes into the video, but you can back it up to the start.
You did not state the source of your copper. If you are trying to use strands of copper from electrical wires, some of them are alloys that stiffen the wires and make them more difficult to inlay, even if they have been annealed. Rio Grande and other jewelery supply houses sell dead soft copper wire in small, inexpensive rolls. You can get a lifetime supply for not much money.
When creating teeth for inlays, pay attention to getting the teeth to be as vertical as you can. You want the inlay metal to flow around the teeth down into the bottom of the channel and divot from which the tooth came.
You can check the security of your wire as you start a run by hammering down a length of a quarter inch or so and then pullling down the line (not up). If it holds, you are good to go. If not, check to see what is wrong before continuing. Did you not seat it well? Are the teeth sitting at an angle (instead of vertically) and being pushed back down when the wire is seated? Are your teeth too fat and provide so much resistance that the inlay wire does not flow well? Are your teeth too short to hold the wire in place?

 

[SamW]

Here is my chasing hammer with attachments. The faces are changeable. The black one is hard rubber with felt tip for setting frets on a finger board. The brass casing on the right is half full of small lead shot to make it a dead blow hammer good for fret setting and with the other brass face also for inlaying harder metals. The flat tool on the left is hardened stainless. I use it to cover harder inlay metal so the hammer blow hits all of the inlay at once. This keeps the inlay metal from deforming like will happen when using a punch that does not cover all of the inlay. One good hit should set the inlay. Then you can go back over it with a punch to make sure it is completely set.

 

[Old Gunsmith]

Here is my chasing hammer with attachments. The faces are changeable. The black one is hard rubber with felt tip for setting frets on a finger board. The brass casing on the right is half full of small lead shot to make it a dead blow hammer good for fret setting and with the other brass face View attachment 54212 also for inlaying harder metals. The flat tool on the left is hardened stainless. I use it to cover harder inlay metal so the hammer blow hits all of the inlay at once. This keeps the inlay metal from deforming like will happen when using a punch that does not cover all of the inlay. One good hit should set the inlay. Then you can go back over it with a punch to make sure it is completely set.

On your dead blow head, did you turn off the lettering on the case head? The threaded plug on the end, did you solder or silver solder it in? lastly, what size shot is inside?

 

[SamW]

I did not remove the lettering...it is a 7mm Rem Mag case. Any belted case should work. I did not solder the plug but I do put a thick washer between the case and hammer body to keep the case from sliding forward on impact. And I used #9 shot.

 

[SamW]

Old Gunsmith, I have been thinking I might try soldering the case and plug . I can turn the plug down a little so when tinned will just fit into the case. Also boring out the primer hole to allow putting in the shot and threading it for a plug screw.

 

[Grizzland]

Thanks for the help guys.
As it turns out, I was trying to inlay the wire with a Pneumatic tool (like the pros) with no luck. I went and got a brass punch set and it changed everything! After chiseling a groove into the sidewalls, I smacked the wire into place with the punch and "WAH LA!", success! I burnished the line, going up and down the copper with light blows of the punch and then filed and sanded smooth. It was very encouraging.