Different types of engraving vises

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Fred Bowen

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#2
It looks like a pitch bowl if it has a round bottom. The bowl is filled with pitch. Pitch is a black sticky resin that holds the work piece in place to be engraved. I think jewery engravers use these.

Wo sind sie?
 

Tira

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#3
Yup, I'm going with Fred on pitch bowl. Repoussee is done with pitch bowls too. The metal is held firmly by the pitch while the front is worked then the metal is taken out, cleaned off and re-melted into the pitch with the other side up so that the rest of the process may be completed.
 
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Thanks,
Guess that would make sense. Sort of an old-fashioned version of the Thermo loc stuff that GRS sells. Bet there are not too many of you using this pitch thing, as it must be an awful pain in the hindquarters compared to just throwing something in the microwave and kneeding it against the workpiece. Pitch can't be all that easy to clean off the work piece either. But...the pitch bowl idea will work and I suppose it has for a hundred years, so it is still an option if one wants to deal with the mess.

I did a quick Google of Repoussee and find no real definition of this term...other than that it appears to be some kind of 3D metal working. Anyone give me a quick, short definition...or do one of you do this?

Where I am...Rheinland Pfalz. That will only mean something to someone that knows the area a bit...:D

Anyone else got some interesting type of vise to tell about...or a self-made version? Keep the ball (vise) rolling!

Open to learning...that's why I'm here!
 

Dave London

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Piper
Yes it is 3d metal work, the metal is usually worked from the back with punches chisles etc then finished from the front. Check out the thread on the (followingtheironbrush )forum
 

Mario Sarto

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Sort of an old-fashioned version of the Thermo loc stuff that GRS sells.
Hello Andrew, the Thermo loc stuff gets hard on room temperature (i believe - i did not use it). It would not work for this kind of technique. For this you need an other stuff - we use a blend from 3 parties black pitch, 2 parties adobe-farina and some tallow (for more ductility). Put some pebbles on the ground and fill up the bowl with the (warm) blend - by now you can start work like Benvenuto Cellini (you know his salt shaker? He used this technique for the figures.)

- the first pic shows a practice plate
- the second pic shows one older and one very old vise - still in use ;)

regards
Mario
 

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Fred Bowen

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Hi Piper
Just curious about your location. I see you're in the West on the French border. My daughter lives in Sonneberg, Thuringia across the Bavarian border from Coburg. Beautiful country... and the beer!.. enough said. Glad to have you aboard.
 

KCSteve

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#8
Mario

Thanks for chiming in! I was reading along and the fact that you need the ductility of the pitch (and at different levels depending on what you're doing) is something that sailed right past me. That's a real nice practice plate (although I'd label the front / back the other way as a viewer rather than a doer).

That 'very old vise' looks quite interesting. Still a useful design and I think you could cast everything but the threads for the screw. Someone should look into bringing that basic design into production as a low-cost alternative.
 

Roger Bleile

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#9
A.D. Muhlmatt vice

Here is a pic of my little A.D. Muhlmatt vice made in Cincinnati and patented in 1898. It weighs 7 1/2 pounds and is only 4 3/4 inches high. The widest part is 4 inches in diameter. I like to use the smallest vise necessary so this little one is perfect for things the size of a pendant or coin. The only thing I don't like is that there is no depth to the jaws. You will notice that the vise is in 3 segments plus the jaws. These segments are unnecessary as I never unlock them. I rotate the whole vise. If I were designing a small vise like this it would be in one piece except for the jaws which would be much deeper.

Roger
 

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gtsport

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#10
small vice

Hi Guys,

Below is a picture of a vice I made a couple of weeks ago. I tend to have extra time on my hands working second shift during the summer, so I built a ball turning jig for the shop's lathe - based on a design that Joe Rust had made for the Gallery Mint Museum a few years ago - and turned out a 6-1/2 pound engraver's vice. The self centering top jaws are set to hold either a nickel or a silver dollar, but I plan on making another set of jaws for other work. The jaws will also interchange with the 15 pound vice I am presently working on. when I get it done, I will post a picture.

JoePaonessa



 

Mario Sarto

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#11
... plate (although I'd label the front / back the other way as a viewer rather than a doer).
Hello Steve,
you are right of course. What i labeled front must be the back. I only want to point the sight, when the plate is on/in the pitch during work at it.

Engraving with the old tools is somewhat catchier in comparison with the newer rotatable vises - but whom i am telling that...

regards
Mario
 

jimzim75

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#13
Something I whipped up for Newbies

This was a vice that I came up trying to think of the cheapest way to get new engraver up and running.
I call it the caster vice. I wanted to use existing part or off the shelf stuff that could be coble into a
workable vice.



I got this vice built for under $50.00 and it took about an hour and half to make.
It may be ugly as sin, but thing of it is, it works like real thing.



I took existing part that are commonly found at a jewellery supply like a peg vice.
The first item was a universal holder or peg vice that can be bought
from Rio Grande for $17.00 No. 113-089.



The second item was a caster.
It has a nice ball bearing swivel and has the added benefit of being
able to locked at an angle. The first component that needed little modification
was a six inch locking cast from Princess Auto supply on sale for $18.00
form $26.00 regular price. These can also be bought from Harbour Freight
Surplus in the USA, and probable for even less money.

The rest of the part you can make out of cold rold steel and dry wall screws..
The trick is to get it centred, so putting on the bracket is fist then sliding the peg vice back
and forth on the bracket till it's in the centre of rotation.

It has four mounting holes that can either be anchored to heavy piece of wood or right to bench.
Until you can afford a good vice this will get you going.

Talk to ya later,
Jim
 
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KSnyder

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#14
here's one for ya, my South Bend 4 jaw "vise". I work it with a foot wheel that is attached to the bottom of the shaft through the bench & down to the floor. The bottom rides on a ball bearing & is centered with another bearing sittin' in a block of ash wood.
And, yeah, that's right, my bench almost always in a state of controlled chaos.
Kent
 

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Mario Sarto

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#15
Wow - those are pretty solutions! Especially Kents impressive tool reminds me i have a skeleton in the cupboard. Tonight i am gonna see my workbench...
 
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Be back soon....

My...we are off and running and some of us have come up with some very good ideas!

A lot of "food for thought" for me and I can see already something I will build using some of the ideas offered. I have to go on the road now for a week so will be out of the net for that time...but already I have a response planned to all these postings, will photograph my masterpiece and will also make a new thread with a bit of information I know about a very similar to, but not quite the same as Repoussee, form of metal working. Now that I know what that is...;) This will require though, photo taking, so, patience... it can't happen before next week.

I'd guess I'm not the only forum member to get something very worthwhile out of all these ideas for vises...so PLEASE...continue. Don't take my silence as anything other than I am not in the net. Pull those masterpieces out from under the bench and hit them with a camera for all of us to see.

I'd guess most of you would agree...necessity must indeed really be...the mother on invention :D
 
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#17
Piper -

Here's one that I've shown before on another forum, but you might be interested. It's made from a small stainless steel mixing bowl (5 or so inches in diameter), filled with melted lead, and set in a cork-lined plywood ring, with a cleat on the bottom to grip in my bench vise. The top is a homemade clamp, made from a couple of steel bars and a couple of 1/2" bolts, welded to a 1/8" steel top plate. It weighs about 20 pounds. The total cost - about 10 bucks, maybe less.

This would not work with a microscope, because of the problem of keeping the work centered, but for engraving standing with hammer and chisel, it can't be beat. I've been using it since about 1970.

Bill




 

monk

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#18
i used a pitch bowl for a time. a total pain for sure. will never use it again, even if i have to ! maybe i'll give it to my grandbaby to drive his mother crazy !
 

filbertius

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#19
Bill,

I couldn't get the photos of the mixing bowl vise to enlarge. (Unless I'm the only unfortunate one) would you be able to post them bigger? I would really like to get a closer look. I'm not in a position to spring for a proper vise right now, so I have been designing ones in my head.

Thanks,
Gary
 

Crazy Horse

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#20
I have a question concerning vices, where can I get one of those vices I see on every Itilan engraver's bench in all the Italian engraving books?
 

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