Drawing the INSIDE elements of scroll. Where do YOU start?

sam

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Thread starter #21
Thanks for the responses. I also design from what I'm calling the end of the scroll and go toward the large knob in the center. The reason I asked was because my student and I (Hora from the Cafe) were discussing this and I was telling him that Lynton McKenzie started the layout of his scrolls from what I'm calling the center, and worked his way back. I remember being really surprised when he told me that as it seems backward to me. Obviously it doesn't matter, especially in the case of McKenzie's beautiful scrollwork, but I do my scroll layouts like most of you, which is the opposite of they way Lynton did them.
 

Roger Bleile

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#22
I draw and cut the backbone from the center but when drawing and cutting the inside work I start at the point of origin or what Sam is calling the end. No one ever told me to do it that way it just seemed to be natural.
 

Peter E

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#25
It has always been shown to start from the "end" and work toward the center in classes I have taken and in books that I have studied, so that is how I have always worked.

VERY interesting to hear Lynton McKenzie worked from the center out. I have always admired his scroll for the clean classic look of it.
 

SamW

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#26
My first post left a lot to be said about the drawing and cutting of scroll. While I tend to work as stated, one must be able to start anywhere along the spiral and draw/cut in either direction to overcome obstacles such as recoil fences, and other non-flat areas. I sometimes find I can fit a spiral to an odd shaped area by starting at the "big" end and work backwards, or even start in the middle, the object being to fit as well as possible to the space at hand. Some of you may remember the guitar tuners I was cutting scroll into. These have 6 upright posts that get into the way of almost every line you want to draw/cut and the scrolls were done in many little pieces in every which direction I could get a tool/scribe to work. In fact some of the lines were actually made with a scribe as it was the only tool I could get to fit. So try it all, learn it all and use it all.
 

thughes

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#27
Not that I have any skill mind you. But I'm glad TOS said his last post. If I am just doodling scrolls on blank paper, I start at the end like everyone else. But sometimes trying to fit one into a defined space, I end up maby starting at the other end or in the middle. I just figured experience would overcome that some day.

Todd
 

mitch

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#28
Lynton McKenzie started the layout of his scrolls from what I'm calling the center, and worked his way back. I remember being really surprised when he told me that as it seems backward to me. Obviously it doesn't matter, especially in the case of McKenzie's beautiful scrollwork, but I do my scroll layouts like most of you, which is the opposite of they way Lynton did them.
it's obviously due to the reversed Coriolis effect and Lynton being an Aussie...
 

Brian Hochstrat

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#29
I guess I am one of the odd balls I start at the center and work toward the end. However, my background is in leather carving so alot of what I do in engraving, started from designing floral carving.
 

FANCYGUN

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#30
OK Here goes and this should stir things up a bit.

I do all three.

Now what is all three. I usually cut from the center back to my point of origin as I wind it easier go follow a flow that way. In other words i trust my eye and it's ability to find a natural rhythm.

I also cut from the begining like most of you have said you do.

Many times for the thrd variation, I catually cut from the middle to both ends. This i find important when the roll must touch somethig along the way such as another scroll or border.

So don't ask me why, it just has evolved that way over the years and seems to work for me. At least most of the time.
 

JJ Roberts

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#31
I don't think there's a rule book on how to engrave scrolls,we all have our own way of doing things.What ever way McKenzie did it,it worked he left behind a unique style and was the mentor and inspiration to many engravers.J.J.
 

Hora

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#32
Willem Parel,

I am so fortuned and happy that Sam explained it all to me what is the front and what is the back of a scroll. I therefore prefer to begin at the beginning, that is if the finish of the scroll is not yet done. In case that the other end is finished before the beginning I like to start at the other side than the start. Sometimes, as Sam explained clearly from his experience, you should chose for a alternative entrance or completion and start or closing at the opposite site of the scroll. In that case you can finish the inside elements before the outside lines are finished at the start and you do not have to wait for the finish of the start at that side. I am always so amazed that when Sam explains something it somehow all comes together and is straight away crystal clear.

Thanks Sam, much appreciated. :tiphat:
 
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rod

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#33
Hora,

So good to know you are back visiting here in the States, doing a one-on-one with Sam!

I very much appreciated having a week at Sam's studio, when he took a chance on me, and brought me into the fold, after wandering alone in the engraving wilderness. A great teacher!

If you have any days to spare, come visit me on the west coast, Hora?

Another thought about scroll direction, most of us have wandered along the banks of a wild stream or river, of which we have many in mountainous Scotland. So for eons we humans have looked into the eye of an eddy, or whirlpool, always the water swirls from the outer radii to the centre core or vortex where is speeds up and goes down, even if you are a city slicker, your sink drains in a similar way, so perhaps thinking of the scroll, natural impulse might be unconsciously directing us from outside radius to inner core in our cutting direction?

Rod
 
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Hora

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#35
Rod,

It was wonderfull with Sam and Abigail. They are just such a nice couple. Sam had all the patience with me as I took this private drawing classes with him. I realy made great progress.:happyvise:

For your invitation, I have to decline for this trip as we are 100 miles off of the east coast right now. But, . . . I will be back!:)
 

sam

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Thread starter #36
It was a great drawing class, Hora! You did really well and it was gratifying to see you progress in such a short time. I sincerely hope we can do it again some day as Abigail and I thoroughly enjoyed your company.

Enjoy the rest of your holiday on the beaches! / ~Sam
 

Ed Westerly

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#37
Just another thought on the backbone. I was taught to cut flare cut scroll backbones from the origin to the center. I no longer do it that way, as the stresses on the tool tip climb rapidly as you tighten into the center "knob". If you start the cut from the center knob and run down the outside of the backbone, the chances of breaking a tool tip go down dramatically. I used to break a tip for every two or three scroll backbones. I now break a tip only if the metal I'm cutting is really hard.
 

Lee

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#38
I tend to read through many of the threads quickly and not very thoroughly and I hope what I say is not redundant and useless. It appears to me that we are discussing two separate activities that may and will in some cases be handled differently- drawing and cutting.

Drawing- I start with the backbone at the beginning and draw towards the center. Often at about the 2/3 mark I change to the center and draw back until the two meet. Marty gave a very good tip on cutting from the border in opposite directions. It also works for drawing. When I add the inside elements, I generally start from the beginning and work to the center. The beginning elements are the largest and more difficult to adjust relative to shape and spacing therefore, I give them the priority and make my adjustments with the smaller and simpler center elements. The exception is when unterlocking elements are involved and then I pay attention to what I need behind and where and works both directions from that point.

Cutting-I don't think it makes a lot of difference and one will find that the time will come when proficiency in cutting both ways is needed. Right handers tend to prefer to cut CCW and left handers CW but there will always be occasions when a change in the topography (a shoulder or rise in the metal surface) will necessitate cutting both ways. Remember Marty's tip it is a good one where one starts at a border and cuts both directions to avoid coming up short against the border.

In the end it is the result that most matters and not how one arrived at the result.
 

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