Critique Request From drawing to P-Plate

Bunic

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Here is the practice plate I cut from the drawing posted here last evening. I have not done the shading as of yet.

This example will have the spine obscured by the leaves and shading. You'll see that my efforts on beveling the leaf ends is not very consistent. This is one of the smallest and most detailed scrolls I've done todate.

CC welcomed. Tnx!
 

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Marcus Hunt

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Mike, like your drawing too many leaves has meant you are finding the spine of the main scroll difficult to follow through which has resulted in a misshapen scroll. On the bright side even a seasoned pro would find cutting a scroll like this difficult which is why we don't use designs like this, they're just too messy and never look right.

The spine of the smaller scroll needs much more work; it needs to be much smoother. As for the tiny scroll the spine is a lot smoother but you have the leaves growing directly from it which is a big NO! This is never done so get out of that habit now before it starts.

You are also flanging your graver far too much. With large scrolls a slight flange (rolling of the graver) is permissible on certain parts of a leaf to give character. Your engraving should not throw any sparkles that a bright cut does. You are aiming to be a firearms engraver and firearms engravers cut black not bright!

Back to more practice. Do you have Ron Smith's scroll kit? You can get it from GRS with or without the books. This will give you a good start and help your development because you will start by cutting a good design to start with. It's better, when starting out, to cut a good design poorly than a poor design well. Practice, practice, practice.....
 

pilkguns

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Ditto Marcus on design and cutting.

I really hate to say this,because I don't wish to discourage you, but I really think you are taking a wrong path here. You are trying to run the 440 and you have'nt learned to walk correctly yet. I think you need to spend more time tracing scrollwork done by masters, whehter it's Nimschke, Churchill,Alfano, Hunt, Smith or insert great name of your choice. Get some tracing paper and trace the scroll and shading lines over and over and think about how the tool would cut this. How the vise would rotate to get the scroll. Do 2 or 3 pages solid of this, and then come back and try to draw your own scroll. Cut some normal scrolls without ANY crossovers. Learn how to make the design look good that way, and as you cut them you will start to see the practical ergonomics of why scrolls are cut and designed certain ways. Once you start to understand that, then you should start trying to draw your own designs with simple crossovers. maybe 1 or 2 for every 5 or 6 scrolls, not the 5 crossovers per scroll in this one, which is as you have seen a nightmare to cut and a nightmare to shade.

You have a lot of talent, but don't take on too much at once. I'm afraid if you do you will create a lot of unneeded frustration.
 
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pilkguns

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And looking back at your picture, and the nickel for size comparison, it is very evident to me that you need more tool control. LIke Marcus says, more practice.
really doing something like this with so many stops and starts is creating bad habits in learning to cut concentric scrolls.

Practice drill, Take a fifty cent piece, draw the circle around it. then create a descending spiral about a 1/8 of an inch from the border and go all the way in with a 1/8 inch separation from one backbone rotation the next one should be 5 or 6 full rotations before you reach the center. Cut those till your silly, or until you have a smoothly cut concentric scroll being done consistently. Then think about adding leaves to it.
 
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Willem Parel

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Oh man when I read all those valid comments of the Pro's I realize I have a lot to learn.
At first look I really liked it, but with the explaination where it went wrong I even see things.
I think the first thing to do for me is buying the books of Ron Smith.
Willem
 

Bunic

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Marcus, et al,

Man! Old age must be catching up with me. I would have sworn that I had already responded to this thread. Sorry...

Marcus,

I totally agree with the 'too many leaves' comment.

Concerning the smaller scroll: having leaves originate from the small scroll is not my concept, but is illustrated in R. Smith's scroll book (pgs. 73, 86, 95, 97, 100, 103, +) and Nimschke's book (pgs. xxxx, xxxii, 10, +).

Flanging my graver the right amount is coming, but slowly. Sometimes I think I got it right and others definitely not.

I've studied Smith's scroll book, but am not familiar with the kit. Can you give me some details? Tnx!


Scott,
I plan on practicing your suggestion (tracing the spine and shade lines of the Big Guns. AND, cutting the $.50 piece - Great idea! Tnx!

What exactly do you mean by 'cross overs?'


Willem,

I agree! I think I'm doing something right until the Big Guns show what is off. Then I can see it like a sore thumb! Tnx!
 

pilkguns

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I think what Marcus means is that you don't have a complete backbone on the smaller scroll. You have cut the leaf lines directly into the outside spine, rather than stopping at that invisible line that creates the inside spine line.

Crossover would be anything that interrupts a normally complete line, whether it be scroll backbone or a leaf being covered.
 
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Peter_M

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Oh man when I read all those valid comments of the Pro's I realize I have a lot to learn.
At first look I really liked it, but with the explaination where it went wrong I even see things.
I think the first thing to do for me is buying the books of Ron Smith.
Willem

What Willem said!

Mike, you are moving right along, keep going, like my Grandma used to say "Masters don't fall from the Sky"

Peter
 

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