Gold background

Donny

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May 2, 2009
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709
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New River, AZ
#21
Don, I missed your question earlier. We were provided with gold wire that was, if I remember right .020" diameter. The background was taken back about .040" on mine...Alain goes even deeper...and once the wire is punched down it is maybe .010 or .012" so the depth of the engraving still is "deep".
Thank you SamW. I greatly appreciate the info. I ended up getting 24, 26 & 28 gauge 24k gold wire and fine silver. (If my wife sees the invoice, she might thump me in the head!)

Again thank you for getting back to me.

Don
 

Alain Lovenberg

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Nov 12, 2006
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Belgium
#22
Roger,

the Sadeler was a Belgian family where there was many engravers and printmakers. Emmanuel and his brother Daniel were famous, working in Munich mainly for the Duke of Bavaria. Many of their decorated guns are in Museums. Ten years ago, Mr Bob Lee showed me a splendid wheel lock gun which was in his collection. The gun was fully engraved, even the barrel, and the backgrounds were inlaid with gold. It had been made for the King of France, Louis XIII by Emmanuel Sadeler. Seeing that gun gave me the idea to engrave also in a similar way, a Purdey shotgun with the gold backgrounds, I made it for Mr Lee. Mr bob Lee was a very fine collector.
For those who may think that creating a gold overlaid background is something new or cutting edge, I offer two pictures of a wheellock pistol made in 1605 by Munich engraver Emanuel Sadeler. Emanuel, along with his brother Daniel are the earliest gun engravers that I know of by name. Their shop was active from 1594-1610. The third picture is detail of another wheellock engraved in 1610 for Maximilian I of Bavaria.
 

Alain Lovenberg

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Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
182
Location
Belgium
#23
Hello Donny,

you can use both wires and sheets for the backgrounds inlaid. I use in general wires for the small areas and sheets for the large ones. The wire gauge I use is generally mm 0,5 or 0,4 but when I use a sheet, 0,2 mm is thick enough.

Thank you SamW. I greatly appreciate the info. I ended up getting 24, 26 & 28 gauge 24k gold wire and fine silver. (If my wife sees the invoice, she might thump me in the head!)

Again thank you for getting back to me.

Don
 

Marrinan

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Nov 11, 2006
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outside Albany in SW GA
#24
On these very old guns a lot of the time they were done using an amalgam putty of Mercury and super concentrate of gold fillings worked into a putty like substance adding more and more gold until it would hold no more. this was then packed into the background areas. when heat was applied the Mercury was vaporized leaving gold plate. Dangerous process and true Damascusine (spl),
 

Donny

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May 2, 2009
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709
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New River, AZ
#25
Hello Donny,

you can use both wires and sheets for the backgrounds inlaid. I use in general wires for the small areas and sheets for the large ones. The wire gauge I use is generally mm 0,5 or 0,4 but when I use a sheet, 0,2 mm is thick enough.
Thank you Alain! I appreciate the help.

Donny
 

Roger Bleile

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Northern Kentucky
#26
On these very old guns a lot of the time they were done using an amalgam putty of Mercury and super concentrate of gold fillings worked into a putty like substance adding more and more gold until it would hold no more. this was then packed into the background areas. when heat was applied the Mercury was vaporized leaving gold plate. Dangerous process and true Damascusine (spl),
Fred,

The process you have referred to is known, in English, as "ormolu" or "fire gilding." In French it is "bronze doré." That process was applied to objects made of bronze, brass, or copper. In particular, it was used for the metal mounts on clocks and furniture. Fire gilding can also be found on bronze sword mounts. It was used, prior to electroplating, to ornament ornate sword blades, often in conjunction with heat bluing. I have not seen the ormolu process applied to guns, like those pictured above.
 

Roger Bleile

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#27
Roger,

the Sadeler was a Belgian family where there was many engravers and printmakers. Emmanuel and his brother Daniel were famous, working in Munich mainly for the Duke of Bavaria. Many of their decorated guns are in Museums. Ten years ago, Mr Bob Lee showed me a splendid wheel lock gun which was in his collection. The gun was fully engraved, even the barrel, and the backgrounds were inlaid with gold. It had been made for the King of France, Louis XIII by Emmanuel Sadeler. Seeing that gun gave me the idea to engrave also in a similar way, a Purdey shotgun with the gold backgrounds, I made it for Mr Lee. Mr bob Lee was a very fine collector.
Thanks, Alain for the additional information. I was not aware that the Sadelers were originally from Belgium. I had read that Louis XIII was a serious gun collector who had an extensive Cabinet d'Armes. In contrast to Louis XIV who was known as the "Sun King", some have called Louis XIII the "Gun King."
 
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