Question: Gold Coins for Inlays

eastslope

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I was just wondering if most of you buy gold sheet, or roll coins into your own sheets and wires? I am very new to this and have no inlay experience other than some copper and a peice of silver. Where do most of you buy gold coins, ebay or coin shops? Maple leafs, Krugerrands, American Eagles, how does one know what to purchase and for how much? Is it cost effective to purchase a cheap rolling mill and make your own sheet and wire? If this question shows my ignorance, it's because I am. If the question is too broad, then please let me know. Thanks.
 

Tira

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eastslope, I am not an expert about this, but I think you need to buy pure 24kt. coins that do not have any materials mixed in with them such as Canadian Maple Leafs, American Buffalos and Chinese Pandas. Krugerrands do have 1oz of gold in them, but are an alloy which improves durability, but probably is not what you want for wire and sheet.

You will pay a high premium especially right now on coins because the demand for gold coins is very high. Premiums are determined by how marketable the gold is perceived to be in the marketplace. The best bet may be to purchase a 24kt. 1oz. bar that is not perfect. By that I mean that they come with the mint identification numbers, etc. stamped on them and then they are sealed in plastic with the same identifiers on the package. If a dealer has one that has an open package he can't sell it for as much as if it were in great condition - kind of a "scratch and dent" sale, if you will. Mind you, all the dealers are different and the premium is again the perceived value above the gold. Right now the market is up $21.10/oz gold to $917.10. If you are going to roll it out anyway you probably don't need it to be in the sealed package.

It probably is a whole lot easier to buy the sheet or wire from a place like Hoover and Strong or from Ray Viramontez. It will come in the form you want and you won't have to pay the very high premium for coins that is happening right now.

Just my thoughts. :)
 

jimzim75

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To each his own method. In my case I buy 24k casting grain, for own use.
Then I have all the equipment required to get it into required shape, sheet or wire.
The other reason is there is practically no mark up on casting grain, coins you'll get a
blanking charge. I buy from a refiners.

What is going to dictate how you purchase your gold is, how near the final product you
need it to be. How much you want to buy. There are sources that have been posted in
past threads.


Jim
 

KCSteve

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Jim

So for someone with a roller mill, what else would they need to be able to start from casting grain? Just a crucible and a mold of some sort?
 

Sam

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I've done it all, from rolling out Panda and Maple Leaf coins to casting grain. As Jim says, casting grain is probably the cheapest way to go, or you can just order a piece of sheet gold from Hoover & Strong and not have to melt anything (it will cost more but save you a bit of time). Just roll it to desired thickness. Every engraver should have a small rolling mill for sheet gold. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to gold for inlay or overlay. You must be able to roll to various thicknesses.

I should also add that I never use anything less than pure (24K) gold.
 

jetta77

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I just rolled out 3 dwt of 24k gold, then used a carbide drawplate to draw different thicknesses. Even though I have a ingot mold and many crucibles I find it easier to just melt the gold on a charcoal block into a button and it easily rolls into square stock in my rolling mill from there it goes into the drawplate. I drew .8 .6 .5 .4 .3 and.28 mm diameter wire and it was enough to last for awhile, a little goes a long way.
Jeff
 

Barry Lee Hands

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I roll my sheet from Maple leafs which I bought when the premium was about 25.
And I buy all my wire from Hoover and Strong.
 

eastslope

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Thanks everyone. I don't know how the heck I would ever get along without this forum. Seth
 

diandwill

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When buying the gold coins, you have to get .999 or .9999, referred to as three nines or four nines pure. Ask the coin dealer for scratched coins, they have no coin value, and you should be able to get them for a few percentage points above spot. If you can establish a relationship with a coin dealer, as a client and/or friend, you can sometimes get a better buy. Show them some of your work and explain what the gold is for and most will be glad to help. Also watch the daily spot prices. It can fluctuate by as much as $30-$40 in a day. Have cash and go in when the price is low, for the best deal. A lot of coin dealers like to deal in cash as it cuts down on the tracking capabilities of the government. I am not concerned with that, just getting the most coin for the least money, or occasionally the most money for the least coin.
Should also add that all coin dealers are NOT created equal. Some are nice and some are greedy as Hades.
Will
 
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jimzim75

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Jim

So for someone with a roller mill, what else would they need to be able to start from casting grain? Just a crucible and a mold of some sort?

24k takes more heat than 14k, so a good casting torch is handy. A ingot mold for either sheet or wire helps.
A melting dish with a handle and your ready to go.

Most jewellers have round draw plates and rolling mills. The only thing left is a saw frame and files.

If you look at it as one big purchase, it is a bit frightening. But if you buy one thing at a time, in a couple of
months. You'll be able to produce anything you require. This can done with low end priced tools for some
items.


*The torch should burn propane and oxygen. Or natural gas. For a nice clean flame.

Talk to ya later,
Jim
 

fegarex

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I'm a little different than the others here. Since I have no jewelry equipment I just buy my gold in sheet or wire form. I have a good draw plate for the wire which you will need if you are going to do much inlay. As far as the sheet gold, I really only have a couple thicknesses and haven't run into any problems. The advantage to this is all the little scrap pieces are the same thickness for future inlays and can used again. Buying in sheet or wire form does cost a bit more but unless you are using a LOT of gold the price difference offsets the time needed to make it into the shape/thickness desired. I started buying gold from Ray Viramontez some 25 years ago and still use him. I don't know if he is the cheapest but you don't need to set up a huge account with him and he offers fast service. Plus he is just a nice guy.
 

KCSteve

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Out of curiosity I checked Rio Grandes prices last night.

For 24K Yellow Gold Casting Grain was $1.65 / Pennyweight cheaper than 24ga wire.
 

eastslope

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Rex, what guages do you typically use on sheet and wire? I picked up a draw plate so the wire thing shouldn't be an issue. Thanks, Seth
 

fegarex

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Seth,
To be honest, I use really thin guage sheet. Usually 28 gauge. If I want a modeled inlay I will use more of an overlay approach to it and save gold. It works for me but your mileage may vary. As far as wire, I don't remember the gauge but I usually get .025 wire and draw it from there. For most line work something around .015 makes a nice look.
 

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