Gold/Silver barrel bands

[George F.]

I'm new here and have very little experience engraving.I'm also a long rifle builder, but have been paying someone to do my engraving, after my first engraving attempt on my first gun I instantly saw my engraving was somewhat primitive, compared to what I had someone do for me on my other projects. I had someone recently give me some pointers, which resparked my interest in trying to learn. I do feel I can. I have some engraving tools. I have a square graver and a 1oz. 2oz. and a 4oz. hammers, as well as a few other gravers, but don't know what they are.Can some one give me a list of gravers that I would need to do these barrel bands. I've been coached somewhat from someone from another forum, who I respect his work and helpfullnes a great deal. He recommended a line graver, but not the size. The bands that I want to do will be about .080" usind 24k gold or sterling wire that thick. Anybody have experience with this? I'm not that good at posting pictures, my nephew needs to give me another tutoriol on that again, but will when he does I will. ....Thanks , George

 

[Glenn]

Welcome George. Did you see "Paint your wagon"? Where Lee Marvin handed over the inexperienced boy to the professional lady and said return me the man. Well consider yourself handed over cause you're in the right house. Everyone here will help you in every way possible. So prepare for the ride of a lifetime.

 

[pilkguns]

George, when you say long rifle builder, I assume you mean front stuffers and most of those are octagonal barrel. I would reccomend a hack saw, or a jewelrs saw if you have it. Jewelers saws can be closed up to give you more support of the blade, but then most jewelers blades are weaker too. you can of course, renotch the either the hacksaw blade or the saw frame or both to have smaller cutting lenght. That's the easiest way to do barrel bands on one of those and keep everything straight and consistent . If you are doing round barrels, then turn the bands on a lathe. You will still have to do your undercuts with a normal graver, but the hard part which is the visible part will be over.

 

[George F.]

Thanks, I pretty much know about undercutting, and cutting down with a jewelers' saw, and turning up teeth just shy of the octogon corners to grab the gold and to keep it from growing length wise, and cutting the groove only as wide as the wire and only 1/2 the width.
Yes I build Kentucky/Pennsyvania long rifles, only in flint though. Releif carved, silver inlayed, wire inlayed, brass mounted with silver accents to enhance the design. I'm trying to get an order to Rio Grande for the gravers I need. I would like to learn how to do bands and borders. A microscope was recommended, but is beyond my financial means. I have binocular nead gear, but I don't remember the lense strength. Maybe by next week I'll know how to post pictures from here....Thanks again, George

 

[John B.]

Hi George F.
Welcome to the Cafe.
Right off the top I would strongly advise against trying to inlay Sterling silver.
That is a very difficult, if not impossible material to line inlay.
It work hardens if you as much as give it a hard look never mind a blow from a seating punch.
For silver linework use pure .999 silver. It inlays well and does not tarnish as readily as Sterling.
For gold lines use 24K, or 22K if you want a higher shine. Personally, I use
24K when ever I can. It does not work harden as badly as 22K.
Hope this is some help.
John B.

 

[Smallpatch]

Hi George,

Inlaying bands is a pretty easy process, not really engraving, other than using a flat graver to lay the trough for the wire.
Once you've got the trough, undercut the edges, planish the wire in place and trim.
Pretty simple.

 

[Glenn]

Scott,
I cut my round barrel bands on a lathe. I cut the channel with a part off tool. I then cut both sides of the channel with left and right undercut tools that are ground to clear the opposite corner of the channel. The bands come out near perfect. I'm even able to inlay and clean up the gold and polish while the barrel is still in the lathe. Not much engraving involved, but near perfect bands.

 

[Sam]

I used to cut barrel bands on the lathe at New Orleans Arms Co. I made a special cutter to cut wide and narrow bands, and it was quite a timesaver. I did the undercutting with a graver. / ~Sam

 

[Yves Halliburton]

Machines

What type, brand, size of lathe and or combo type of machine would you recommend. IE Smithy.

 

[Sam]

A 10" x 24" lathe is a good size for a small shop. I was never big on combo machines myself. Whatever lathe you get, try to get one with a large hole in the spindle. I believe these are commonly referred to a toolroom lathes. I learned on a Southbend 10" toolroom lathe which was a beautiful little machine. It was also the same kind Don Glaser had in his basement which he used to prototype much of the GRS equipment. Later I bought a Jet 9" lathe, which by comparison, was a piece of crapola compared to the Southbend. Perhaps there are some decent Asian import lathes, but the Jet I had was barely adequate. / ~Sam

 

[Glenn]

The lathe should be a metal working not wood working lathe. The diameter of swing does not matter much, but it should turn 36 inches between centers. You should use a live center in the tail stock.
Many importers have inexpensive metal lathes. Harbor freight comes to mind. On ebay you can find many choices at varying prices. Good luck.