Got my first gun outlined

RedfordTrails

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
57
Gonna be a while before I have time to background it and shade it, but here's my first gun design. Probly coulda done without the giant running leaf.

Weird metal.... It was very porous and rust came out of the porosity so each cut just wept rust. And the metal came up in curls as if it were a bar of soap, but really the graver went through it just fine.

Cut with a 120 degree



 

tim halloran

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
315
Location
Blue Grass, IOWA
Redford: I Think You Have Got A Chemical Treatment Meant To Simulate Color Case Hardening. I Engraved A But Plate From A Single Shot , Falling Block Rifle, That Cut Very Easily Also.It Had The Same Appearance, And It Could Be An Oxide Coating Similar To Bluing, As Bluing Is Actually A Coating Of Rust. Correct Me If I'm Wrong.
 

RedfordTrails

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
57
Oh, I thought it was blueing. What is color case hardening? I would like to figure out how that finish was done. I have a friend that saw it and wants to replicate it on some motorcycle parts.
 

joe seeley

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
87
Location
Big Timber MT
The finish on that gun is color case hardening, with the use of cyanide. it was done at a rather low temperature so that the case (carbon bearing surface) is rather thin and easy to cut thru. Cyanide case hardening is widely used in industrial settings, as it is fast and inexpensive, easily automated. The thickness of the case is easily controlled. You will find this type of case hardening on many of your modern, inexpensive firearms, also most of the italian, spanish, and turkish imports are cyanide cased. One of the older company's that used cyanide a lot was Stevens, easily recognized by the almost tiger stipe colors. The rust like dust that you had when cutting this gun, are a combination of the cast steel/cast iron composition of the receiver, and the carbon in the surface of of the metal.

There are generally three types of case hardening I will give you a brief description of them for your knowledge.

1 Cyanide case hardening, parts are suspended in molten cyanide, at a temperature of 1200 deg to 1500+ deg. for
for a period of time allowing the metal to absorb carbon into the surface. the colors are a byproduct of the quench
that causes the carbon rich surface to harden.

2 Bone pack case hardening, parts are packed with bone and/or wood charcoal inside a sealed container and
heated to a temperature in excess of 1300 deg, allowing the steel to absorb carbon from the decomposition of the
charcoal. the parts are held at the high temperature for a length of time, so that you can get a carbon enriched
surface, then the contents of the pack (parts, charcoal and all) are dumped into the quench. thus leaving you with
hard carbon rich surface. Again the colors are a byproduct of the quench.

3 Gas atmosphere case hardening. parts are put into a controlled atmosphere of carbon rich gases and heated to
temperatures in excess of 1500 deg, allowing the carbon from the gases to penetrate the surface of the steel. the
the parts are then quenched. there is generally little to no color present in this type of hardening, but the depth of
the case can be much deeper.

Joe
 
Last edited:

RedfordTrails

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
57
Wow thanks for the info. Only number two sounds like something I could attempt. Think I could do this on steel parts by packing charcoal blocks around them in a crucible, and heating in a burnout kiln? Then a water quench? Or do I need an air tight sealed container for parts and charcoal? If so what could I use... I'd be afraid of blowing up a sealed container...
 

graniteguy52

:::Pledge Member:::
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
251
Location
Bozeman, Montana
Thanks to Redford Trails for starting this thread, and thanks to Joe Seeley for posting this information - it is something I have been searching for.
Should an engraver attempt to remove the existing "color case hardening" before engraving?
Thanks,
Gordon Alcorn
 

joe seeley

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
87
Location
Big Timber MT
Gordon,
I always remove the colors, and polish the steel prior to engraving. with the cyanide case colors it is very easy to polish thru the case, without having to anneal the steel first. If the piece is to be re cased it is best to have the steel annealed anyway, this will help keep the distortion at a minimum when re casing. It will also polish much easier and colors will be better when casing again. Not to mention it will be much easier on your tools when engraving.

Joe
 

joe seeley

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
87
Location
Big Timber MT
Thanks sam, I am always happy to share any info, or knowledge that I have, as I have had so many people help me out along the way also.

here are a couple of pictures of a receiver that I packed a few weeks ago. this is a good example of the old fashioned bone pack hardening

Joe

By the way: this is not my engraving you will have to credit Barry Hands for that, and Jerry fisher for the metal work
 

Attachments

  • 100_0841.jpg
    100_0841.jpg
    142.6 KB · Views: 55
  • 100_0840.jpg
    100_0840.jpg
    140.7 KB · Views: 51
Last edited:
Top