Announcement: GRS dual angle, parallel heel

[Terrezar]

Beeing a beginner in the engraving trade I tend to experimente a lot, and because the reasent fuss about heels and faces and sharpening I started to experimet a little with heels. I failed completly when trying to engrave whit a long heel, and when trying whit a "bendt" heel and so I wanted to try out a parallel heel, for a change. The only problem, however, was the fact that I use a GRS dual angle fixture to sharpen, a system that usualy produced "regular" heels.I spendt a lot of time thinking about this, and afther a little while started to see a pattern in the geometry.

Anyone can understand that to make a parallel heel in the GRS fixture one musst tilt the graver a few extra degrees when making the heel. However, the main problem here is that the amount of degrees one has to add changes depending on how steep a heel you usualy use.

Luckely for all of us there is a pattern. I have taken the liberty of working out the patterns for the most common gravers, and listing them here.

For a 60 degree graver, tilt 1,73 degree for every 2 degree of your heel.

For a 75 graver, tilt 1,3 degree for every 2 degree of your heel.

For a 90 degree graver, tilt 1 degree for every 2 degree of your heel.

For a 105 graver, tilt 0,76 degree for every 2 degree of your heel.

For a 120 degree graver, tilt 0,57 degree for every 2 degree of your heel.

Keep in mind that all of the abowe geometries are calculated for a face of 45 degrees.

The last decimal is not all that important, I think, but I put them up here anyway.

To give an example, if I have a 90 degree graver with a 10 degree heel I will have to set the fixture to 50 degrees when making the heel instead of 45.

Hope you find it useful, and if you have any strange geometries, I'm sure I can work that out too.

The reason I'm not posting the way to work it out is simpely because I'm not quite sure about how to explane it whitout making a lot of work out of it.

In time I'll try to figure out something for other faces as well, but as I only use 45 degrees I didn't bother with that now.

Hope you find it useful

 

[RDP]

Thanks for this information, I always wondered and new there had to be some sort of formula for working this out, instead of eye balling the graver to sit flat on the stone while you set the fixture, it certainly helps me a lot,

Thanks.
Richard.

 

[monk]

some have grown bald tryin to figger this all out. you have saved a lot of foolin around by doing this. thanks

 

[Sandy]

There is a excel spread sheet that will give you the angles for the parallel heel. It was developed by Steve Ritter and John Henley.
You enter three variables:
graver angle, (90, 105 etc)
Face angle
Heel angle
And it gives you the rotated tool angle for parallel heels.

 

[Terrezar]

Richard, Monk, glad it comes to good use

Hi, Sandy Im sure it has been developed, being as for example Steeve Lindsay makes templates with paralell heels, and I doubts he just guesses, but I have never seen any information about such. Nor have I seen any tables, or sheets whit information about parallel heels. I even searched both of the engraverforums to find it, but have not been able to. So I just thought I'd post it here. I'm in no way saying I was the first one to figure it out, but I as far as I can figure I am the first one to post it here.

 

[Southtexas]

There is a excel spread sheet that will give you the angles for the parallel heel. It was developed by Steve Ritter and John Henley.
You enter three variables:
graver angle, (90, 105 etc)
Face angle
Heel angle
And it gives you the rotated tool angle for parallel heels.

And where does one find this spreadsheet?
Cliff

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

In time I'll try to figure out something for other faces as well, but as I only use 45 degrees I didn't bother with that now

It ain't smart only using 45° face, sometimes you will need someting else

arnaud

 

[Steven Marston]

I would like to see the spreadsheet as well
Thanks in advance!
Steven

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[Terrezar]

It ain't smart only using 45° face, sometimes you will need someting else

arnaud

I have experimented a little with this, and for a while I used a 40 degree face, but the tip kept chipping. For narrower V gravers I may think a 50 degree would be a good choice, any thaughts?

 

[Sam]

Here's the spreadsheet graver angle calculator for those interested. Just type in the the kind of graver you want (90°, 105°, 120° etc), the heel angle you want (15°, 20°, etc), and it will calculate the sharpening fixture rotation angle to produce a parallel heel graver.

Graver Angles by Steve Ritter & John Henley

 

[Southtexas]

Thank you. Not sure how much I'll use it but it's a nice resource to have available.
Cliff

 

[Sandy]

Sam,
Thanks for putting the sheet up. I couldn't figure out how to do it.
Sandy.

 

[Sam]

Sam,
Thanks for putting the sheet up. I couldn't figure out how to do it.
Sandy.

Took me awhile Sandy. Microsoft Skydrive did the trick.

 

[James Roettger]

Here is a link to Steve Lindsay's web site. http://airgraver.com/engraving_graver.htm This link brings you to the free license agreement and then follows to the instructions for cutting parallel heels. A little practice and the system is very easy to follow and infer a broad spectrum of angles using the dual angle sharpening fixture. I find the GRS dual angle fixture easy enough to use that I don't feel a need to buy templates. The relieving facets only need to be touched up about once every year or two so I can't see getting templates when I can usually just dial three angles, face, and each of the two heels to complete a sharpening. No need to measure how far the graver is extending out of the template which adds another step, probably just as time consuming as dialing between three angles when using the dual angle fixture. Plus the GRS dual angle fixture doesn't care about the elevation of the sharpening stone or wheel which is critical when using a template. One other tip, I like to use a diamond scribe to mark right on the graver shank the V angle and face or heel angle if other than 45 or 15 degrees respectively.

 

[Ed Westerly]

Thanks for the info on calculating parallel heels. I have lost my set of instructions as to how to do it, and I was down to my last two gravers with parellel heels. I almost had to break down and ask someone!

 

[atexascowboy2011]

James
I've been known to be wrong before...
To my recollection, you DO need to measure the protuding graver on the dual angle sharpener consistently OR you will be changing the angle each time. So goes for a consistent height each and every time, which can be compensated for by adjusting the height on the stem.
The more graver that sticks out will lower the angle, as the more height will decrease the angle.
For me, using Steve's system alleviates a lot of headaches (if only Steve could program my wife the same way!).
A block of delrin for the base , his consistent height sharpening stones combined with his templates and voila' ! A perfect angle EVERY time.
EVEN a Texican can do it!
Frank Hendricks and many of his proteges, as well as the German trained engravers, just eyeballed their points and created classical masterpieces.
Jeff

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jeff

No, you don't need to measure the graver height or protrusion etc etc on the dual angle sharpener. Because the head slides up and down it doesn't matter. All angles will remain the same and consistent. Same with the EasyGraver systems.

It is only on a fixed base that you need to measure.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[atexascowboy2011]

Andrew
Told you I'd been wrong before.
Chalk up another.
Hopefully it'll be my last!
Yeah, right!
Jeff

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Jeff, your recollection is as good as mine and many others.

If I recollect correctly, I may have been wrong once in 1972. But I'm not sure.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[monk]

all along i've been doing this wrong. resorted to eyeballing. alas, new hope for an old dog ! great ! i just bought a used dual angler from a post in buy or sell.