Gun outline swap at Engrave In

[Ray Cover]

I have ran this idea by Scott and he approved it.
Here is what I propose.

I am bringing about 75 copies each of gun engraving layout outlines for three guns to give away to attendees at the engrave in. I'm bringing a S&W L Frame, Baby Browning 25 auto, and Colt SAA Black Powder frame layouts.

If other Engrave In attendees would do the same with other guns we could all swap them and each attendee could end up with several gun layouts that they did not have to draw themselves. What a time saver.

This seems to me to be a practical way that we can all help each other out.
If each year we all bring a couple different gun outlines to give away to other attendees it won't be long until we all have a heck of a collection of Gun outlines to work with.

I am bringing my 3 to give away this year regardless of whether anyone else participates or not.

If any of you fellow attendees have a few layouts around the studio that you don't mind sharing here is how we need to handle it to make it run smooth.

1. Make sure it is labeled as to what make and model gun it is.
2. Make enough copies that we don't have to run to Scott and have him use his printer ink and paper.
3. Try to use a good clean crisp copy so to make a nice clean usable outline.
4. Make sure the copies are actual size so designs can be made right off the layout copy.
5. In this thread list the gun/guns you planning to bring copies for so we don't have a bunch of repeats.

Thanks,

Ray

 

[John B.]

Hi Ray,
A whole lot of these gun outlines are available in the FEGA "How To" book.
Many of them were done by Ron Smith, Bob Evans, Bill Barnett and other Guild engravers.
I know Guild members are free to use them but maybe Rex can chime in about copyright.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

John, I'm rather curious ... how can a third party claim ownership of a tracing, done by me in my own home/shop, of a product manufactured by an altogether separate entity? .... some of which are no longer trademarked or patent protected.

The book itself, as well as its' format, may be copy protected but certainly not the shape of what would be considered a "common" item. That would be like the hypothetical organization of Door Makers coming after me because I made a drawing of a door.

 

[Ray Cover]

My copy of the FEGA how to book is very old and it has a couple dozen outlines in it. There may be more in the newer versions. If Ron, Bob and Bill gave us their OK to use their drawings I certainly would appreciate it.

My vision is to develop a way to build a massive collection of gun outlines for the engraving community at large to be able to draw from. If even 25 others brought a couple outlines each to the engrave in that would be over 50 (including mine) that we put in the library this year. It would not take but a few years till we had an impressive time saving library of gun outlines for engravers to use.

Now we certainly won't get every gun ever made but it would not take long until we at least had the most popular to engrave guns covered and several others to boot. The collection could potentially be scanned in and filed on the forums for easy access there as well. But first the collection has to be built.

BUT>>> that won't work if only a couple of us participate. It is going to take several people putting designs in the hat for it to grow into a practical tool.

Here is a list of what we have coming so far in the way of gun outlines

from me
Colt SAA black powder frame (modern)
Smith and Wesson "L" frame revolver full lug barrel
Browning 25 Auto (baby Browning -Older St Louis marked)

From Chris Malouf
1. Colt 1851 Navy (2nd generation, year made: 1971)

2. Colt Series '70 standard "Model of Colt 1911A1") (not to be confused with the Series 70 Colt reproduction with "71" at the beginning of the serial number)

3. Remington 1858 New Model Army (Uberti)

4. Remington Rolling Block #1 (late model, pre-1899 original military as it has not yet been converted to a sporting configuration)

5. Winchester model 1894 Pre-1899 (valid for pre-war '94 Winchesters w/o S.R.)

from Fred Marrinan
North Amer4ican Arms (I think this is the mini revolver)
Belt buckle - saddle silver outlines

From MJConte
1911 colt

From Andrew Biggs
Uberti Revolving Carbine

From John Barraclaugh
Colt 1911
Winchester model 12 (16,20,28 gauge frame)
Smith and Wesson model 36 & 60

JJ is sending me some too but they have not got here via the mail yet. As soon as I get them I will update.

We are off to a great start folks

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Cui Bono? Where will the "massive" library be available? How much will it cost to access and who ultimately profits?

 

[Ray Cover]

FREE FREE FREE

Nobody is making a buck here Chris

How to access:

Well for one you can come to the engrave in and get your own copies and build your own....OR.... like i said we can put it on the forums or elsewhere online for people to add to and use.

Ray

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Excellent Ray .... getting all of the facts out in the open helps participation.

Anything to help promote engraving.

I'll be happy to donate a few of my own and will list them as soon as I get them together.


Chris

 

[John B.]

Ray, I think your idea to create a library of outlines is a good one and goes right along with the idea of engravers helping engravers.
All I wanted to point out is that there are already quite a few out there so that folks didn't have to reinvent the wheel on these.

Chris, I don't know that there would be any problem with ownership.
As I didn't originate them I thought it might make folks more comfortable to know if they were welcome to use them for personal use and/or to also reproduce them in quantity.

All the old dogs know this but for those that have not done a lot of firearms layout.
The outlines are very handy to make initial idea layouts and estimates and practice drawing, of course.
But be aware that there are size variations in many guns of the same model due to the final factory grinding and possible later restoration work.
Before you put a ton of work in a final paper drawing it is best to make an outline from the actual firearm you are going to engrave if you intend to use it as the basis for a transfer.
The flat sides on Colt 1911 slides (and clones) and many of the old flat side Winchester rifles and shotguns can be quite different and different from side to side on the same gun.

Best to all.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Thank-you John,


Excellent points as well.

Adding not only the manufacturer's name and the model ... but also year of manufacture and the corresponding "series", "generation" or other descriptive detail such as "pre-1899" or "pre-1964" can help pinpoint the outline's usefulness.

I will try to have the 5 following outlines ... one or two may change on the list but there will be at least FIVE:

1. Colt 1851 Navy (2nd generation, year made: 1971)

2. Colt Series '70 standard "Model of Colt 1911A1") (not to be confused with the Series 70 Colt reproduction with "71" at the beginning of the serial number)

3. Remington 1858 New Model Army (Uberti)

4. Remington Rolling Block #1 (late model, pre-1899 original military as it has not yet been converted to a sporting configuration)

5. Winchester model 1894 Pre-1899 (valid for pre-war '94 Winchesters w/o S.R.)


Take care, and thanks Ray for the great idea!!

Chris

 

[Marrinan]

Ray, Excellent! I was bringing about 145 belt buckle layout/tracing masters as part of my presentations. I also have some saddle silver layout/tracings that will be comming as well. I only have the North American Arms tracing as far as guns go I think. I will look and run copies of what I have. Let you know the models when I locate them. My last participant count was over 60 so seventy five will be about right-Hope buckles will work.-Fred

 

[Ray Cover]

That is actually a good idea Fred.

I have also thought about non gun things. I have layouts of Bellinger and Struble reel seat parts. Knife layouts etc.

This thing could grow to be as inclusive as we want it to be.

Thank you guys for being willing to participate.

Ray

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Great idea Ray!!!

I'll send you a Remington outline via e-mail that you can give away as you see fit.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[MJConte]

I printed this out full size using Paint Shop Pro. Don't know how it will transfer over the computer...

 

[KCSteve]

A suggestion to let us newbies participate, how about a tutorial on how to create a proper outline?

I don't know if I can contribute to this but I'm willing to try.

 

[Ray Cover]

Maybe after the engrave in but no time for that now.

Ray

 

[Cloudy]

excellant ideas- esp. on the buckles (since I don't do guns...yet) Interested in plane sides? That's all I have to offer-

 

[leroytwohawks]

Cloudy, I love your planes I think this could turn out to be a treasure trove of designs of all types before it's over.

And Cloudy, Happy birthday to you!!!!

Kevin

 

[Bunic]

I'd be glad to scan, categorize and publish any/all profiles for a Forum Sticky unless someone else wants to. I would make them all the same format(s), size, etc. If so, they could be collected at the Engrave In then mailed to me.

As you can imagine, I don't have any profiles to offer...

 

[Ray Cover]

I may just take you up on that Mike. I don't have the greatest computer skills. I can get by but I am not efficient at it.

Ray

 

[Bunic]

If it's a 'go,' I can pick whatever you collect at the Engrave In when I'm at your place in July (unless there is a great rush for the files) and then email or send the CD to whomever will be posting them.