Heavily engraved snuff box

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hi Members this is my first post on this forum,I collect interesting small boxes that have fine quality workmanship.

This small silver box no makers marks,has a lot of engraving,I would be interested in members thoughts on the quality in their opinion,possible country of manufacture and age if possible . I have never see any other boxes fully engraved on the interior as this one before,it may have been a one off special order.

Regards Guido. 2019-12-29 23.30.20.jpg 2019-12-29 23.30.20.jpg 2019-12-29 23.30.38.jpg 2019-12-29 23.30.38.jpg 2019-12-29 23.32.14.jpg 2019-12-29 23.29.06.jpg 2019-12-29 23.38.14.jpg
 

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hello members as this is my first post,not sure how many images I was allowed ,I hope it is ok if I add some more image with this message.

Size of box is 3"inches x 2 1/4"inches x 9/16ths inch.

Regards Guido. 2019-12-29 23.40.20.jpg 2019-12-29 23.29.46.jpg 2019-12-29 23.29.26.jpg 2020-02-11 12.52.12.jpg 2019-12-29 23.31.39.jpg
 
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Guido.

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Hi
SW and MD
Many thanks for your comments,Any thoughts on age or country of manufacture no one seems to know have had about 7 country suggestions so far,My thoughts were Germany or France.

Kind regards Guido.
 

Guido.

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Hello Members

Can I also ask about on one of the magnified sections we can see the tips of some leaves with bumps or notches that stick up,how are these done?are the edges punched if so when was this method done is this method unusual or fairly common?

Kind Regards Guido.
 

T.G.III

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No answers. just questions.

In the last series of pictures where the inside of the lid engraving is clear you can see the outermost elements in the top right and left hand corner looks to be going against the flow, or is that a design element I'm not familiar with?

Regardless, the piece is stunning to look at, thank you for the clear pictures.
 

Goldjockey

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Hello Members

Can I also ask about on one of the magnified sections we can see the tips of some leaves with bumps or notches that stick up,how are these done?are the edges punched if so when was this method done is this method unusual or fairly common?

Kind Regards Guido.
Edges are raised with a fine chisel tip punch. Looks like textured punches were used to knock down the background too.
 

monk

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the original owner must have been well off. i don't see a "commoner" carrying that about.
 

Guido.

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the original owner must have been well off. i don't see a "commoner" carrying that about.
Hi TG and Monk
Many thanks for all your comments ,I agree that it must have cost someone a lot to have made.
as I am not an engraver ,I am not sure TG about your comments on the engraving near the corners.
Thanks for comments about notches on leaves ,make sense what you say.
to me these little features seem to mean that the maker did not care how long it took to do the job and was in no hurry .

From members experience of engraving ,how long would it take to do this engraving on this box?

Kind Regards Guido.
 

mitch

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I'm wondering how many different engravers worked on that piece. The photos aren't clear enough to make an accurate assessment, but there's definitely enough variation to the style & quality on the panels to see it wasn't all done by the same hand.

For my money, the interior of the bottom is the best work. It's all pretty good, but that's my clear favorite.
 

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hi Mitch
Thanks for your comments ,you may be correct that are few engravers may have been involved ,I had not thought about the work in this way.I have added some other images,hopefully they are a bit better ,have tried to get some close ups of sections. Hope members enjoy the images. IMG_6652.JPG IMG_6651.JPG IMG_6650.JPG IMG_6649.JPG IMG_6648.JPG IMG_6647.JPG IMG_6646.JPG IMG_6645.JPG IMG_6644.JPG

Regards Guido.
 

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hello Members
Some other images of outside back.

In the opinion of members are the front and back of the box cast,or cut and engraved from one sheet of silver plate?

Regards Guido. IMG_6654.JPG IMG_6655.JPG IMG_6656.JPG IMG_6657.JPG IMG_6659.JPG IMG_6661.JPG
 

thughes

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Beautiful box. Some of it, especially the female figure and the pedestal remind me of some of the high end 18th century engraved powder horns i've seen in some of my books. possibly similar time period.

Todd
 

Goldjockey

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Hello Members
Some other images of outside back.

In the opinion of members are the front and back of the box cast,or cut and engraved from one sheet of silver plate?

Regards Guido. View attachment 47484 View attachment 47485 View attachment 47486 View attachment 47487 View attachment 47488 View attachment 47489
I'm going to guess cast. You'd need a monster saw frame to cope that out. If you have the equipment, it would be easier to carve outlines and open areas from a sheet of wax and cast, then engrave.
 

DanM

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I'm going to guess cast. You'd need a monster saw frame to cope that out. If you have the equipment, it would be easier to carve outlines and open areas from a sheet of wax and cast, then engrave.
A standard 4 inch throat saw frame would have no problems with piercing that size metal sheet. In the photos the open work panels do look like they were cast.
 

Goldjockey

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A standard 4 inch throat saw frame would have no problems with piercing that size metal sheet. In the photos the open work panels do look like they were cast.
I find the larger the frame the less I like to use it, and the more prone it is to 'squirreling' with finer blades and fine cuts. I've got an 8" frame I keep around for items like huge mens bracelets and big buckles. It works but I really have to mind angle, direction etc.
 
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Guido.

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
17
Beautiful box. Some of it, especially the female figure and the pedestal remind me of some of the high end 18th century engraved powder horns i've seen in some of my books. possibly similar time period.

Todd
Hello Todd

Many thanks for you thoughts, I feel you may be correct, In Germany ,there was a style called Historismus ,that described items of silver made coping very early styles from earlier centuries,Rocco ,Renaissance,Baroque etc.
I feel my box maybe in this area. I felt when I bought it it may have been German or French.

I have attached images of another interesting box ,Made by J.D Schieissner &Sohne Hanau Germany ,probably around 1890s, That would be one of these pieces . It also has some nice engraving.

The enamel painting on the top is after a painting by the dutch artist Corenelis Dusart (1660-1704)
student of Adrien Van Ostade( 1610-1685).

I have photographed the boxes , Although I am not sure if this may be call repousse work rather than engraving. IMG_6681.JPG IMG_6667 (1).JPG IMG_6675.JPG IMG_6677 (1).JPG IMG_6678 (1).JPG together for size comparison. IMG_6665 (1).JPG
Regards Guido
 

Guido.

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
17
I find the larger the frame the less I like to use it, and the more prone it is to 'squirreling' with finer blades and fine cuts. I've got an 8" frame I keep around for items like huge mens bracelets and big buckles. It works but I really have to mind angle, direction etc.
Hello Goldjockey and Dan M.

Thanks for your opinions ,I feel you both are correct.
the front and back lack the crispness of the engraving inside and on edges ,I can also see some sections that have been over cut with fret saw , after casting ,these over cuts you would think would not be there if all engraved and cut. As you say it may have been cast using the lost wax process.

Regards Guido.
 

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