Question: High detail photos?

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I would like to see some master engraving in the highest details.
I know Phill Coggan shows us fabulous engraving in quite a big size
The scenes he made, and as far that I understand, they are not done with dots but lines.
But this can’t bee seen, of course it are small lines.

I have read somewhere in this Café that Phill can put 40 lines in the same direction in One mm.

I understand that it is not something you masters like to share.
But perhaps some high resolution scan (600dpi) of just one scroll?

This because I never saw en master engraving in real life, and if I knew where to find one, I would have to touch them to look at them with my x10 loupe.

I think it would help a lot as study material to have some high details of cutting and shading.
And I know it is not easy to make a good photo, perhaps a photo true the microscope?

arnaud

 

[Peter E]

Arnaud,
Have you seen the "castings" of master engravings such as those offered on the FEGA website? I would say if you want to look closely at the works of some of the masters, the castings are exceptional. They show MUCH more than pictures can.

Peter

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Peter, thanks for the tip, I never saw this website, nether did I know about castings.
The Fega website is in my favourites now
Do they show the rolling of the engraver cuts, and fine shading. I mean are they "High End Copy's" of the master originals?
As I would think that fine shading lines can't bee casted.

arnaud

 

[Joe Mason]

The casting are great and they pick up the smallest cuts or dots. I have seen finger prints in the casting.

Ray Cover also has castings.

Joe

 

[Frank P]

Arnaud,i can absolutely recommend the cast of grand master Martin Strolz` floorplate,learn from the best, this tells 1000 more than a pic, it s true...
take an afternoon free to fully admire it (neem er n jupilerke bij)
Frank

 

[Ron Smith]

Arnaud,

Here are some of my copies. Banish the thought that you cannot get detail with plastic copies. I did a knife with mother of pearl handles and copied the work on it. The copy even showed the colors of the pearl. Explain that one to me. Obviously the colors show on pearl because of some texture that is microsopic or something. I couldn't believe my eyes.

Anyway, here are some of my copies and I have quite a collection of other engravers work. These are like the "baseball cards" of engravers. I have a case full of them, and am quite proud of them. It is the only way I could afford the work of my friends.

I will assure you that they are better than photographs for study. You can see every line and detail.

The look good displayed too on a dark background in a frame or shadow box. Nice art pieces to display and unique from other art.

Here are some of mine in a frame: Picture no. 3

My dispaly case No. 1

A copy up close, but not a very good one. I just grabbed it out of my reject box, but you get the idea I hope.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thanks Frank, I will order some of him.
I see there on the FEGA website http://www.fega.com/prodserv/castsSC.asp?categoryparam=cast

I didn't know this existed, and paying for an original, just to learn from it will probably so expencif, that I can't afford een Jupilereke (a Belgium beer).

And if these castings are what you say they are, I sure need some as that is the way I learned all my life, looking at others work and understand how it was made. :yes

arnaud

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thanks Ron, I understand it all. And sure that is what I need, and it is affordable to have some work of the masters.

I'm sure it will help me a lot.

But as I understand, they are made of some plastic?

arnaud

 

[Ron Smith]

yes, they are plastic polymer.

You could do this yourself too.

You first make a rubber mold, (dental rubber), then you use a polymer compound to make the plastic copy. It takes some practice, but it is a good way to keep records and retain some of your own pieces. Once finished, I doubt that most of us hardly get to see our work again. Like Kevin said, it is good to be able to look back.

GRS sells some of the stuff to do this I think, if you are interested. They are good trading products and good advertising too.

I often did them after a job and gave my client a copy mounted in a frame. It takes a little extra time, but worth it I think. Your client will love you, and then you have something that you can barter with or trade with your fellow engravers.

Mounted, they make nice attractive gifts too. And they are cheap compared to any other piece of art.

Forward!

Ron S

 

[Kevin P.]

Arnaud
Another source is books, but not all books. I bought a book from The Metropolitan Museum (NYC) bookstore "Heroic Armor of the Italian Renaissance" c. 1550'5. The plates in color have amazing detail, and there are some black and white. Those guys in the 16th C. were as good as it gets. The print quality is excellent.
"Engraving on Precious Metal" by Brittain, Wolpert, and Morton gives details about flange cuts, threading, what direction to cut letters etc. I often go to that book when I'm trying to figure out a cut.
As for Phil Coogan, I'm sure he's a very busy guy. When you and I have progressed much further, he'd probably be more likely to answer questions which would be on a more sophisticated level.
But what the heck Ron is giving you lots of advice.
Perseverance furthers.
Kevin

 

[Doc Mark]

Arnaud,

Make sure you buy the Bulino casting that Chris De Camillis (sp) did for FEGA. You can put this under a microscope and really see the amazingly tiny lines and dots that make up the waterfowl scene. There are other really great castings but this one really shows the line style of bulino the best.

Mark

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Ron, I beginning to understand how they are made.
The goldsmiths lik eI do, they make moulds with real rubber or silicon rubber that is vulcanized. (heating under pressure)
Then they cut the rubber with a surgery knife in such a way the object can be removed.
They are meant to inject some liquid wax to make a copy.
Of course this is always for 3D objects like rings. That is why the mould has to enclose the entire object. But I supose you already know that as you also worked on jewellery.

But I have a friend who is dentist, and they use the blue powder they mix with water to make a mould of your teats. It is flexible and has no shrinkage, could it be this?

I sure can find out how to make these castings and it sure is worth to find out.
I made thousands jewels, I'm not sure because I couldn't count them, but at first I could remember them all.

Now sometimes a client comes with a jewel I made, and I can't even remember I made it. Sure always nice to see one of your creations you forgot. They want something to fix.

I made more then 1 meter jewellery designs, it takes a whole day to see them, they are in an old wooden box like one of Captain Hook. The problem with it what Joseph mentioned in his tread "What happens to your stuff when you die?"

I think the most important is what you give to others, only that way some will cherish you.

and the ones who will rule the world after us, will probably have wooden heads

arnaud

 

[Phil Coggan]

I would like to see some master engraving in the highest details.
I know Phill Coggan shows us fabulous engraving in quite a big size
The scenes he made, and as far that I understand, they are not done with dots but lines.
But this can’t bee seen, of course it are small lines.

I have read somewhere in this Café that Phill can put 40 lines in the same direction in One mm.

I understand that it is not something you masters like to share.
But perhaps some high resolution scan (600dpi) of just one scroll?

This because I never saw en master engraving in real life, and if I knew where to find one, I would have to touch them to look at them with my x10 loupe.

I think it would help a lot as study material to have some high details of cutting and shading.
And I know it is not easy to make a good photo, perhaps a photo true the microscope?

arnaud

Arnaud,
If it's scroll that you wish to concentrate on, the castings are ideal and show excellent detail, but I would go to Sam's "Shading Excercise" thread, your not going to get better than this.
Study the lines and copy them as close as you can, it takes time and patience but you will get it in the end.
Reduce it and print it to a reasonable size, bigger is not better as those shading lines are harder to do the larger the design.

A lot of my pictures shown on the forum where taken with a 35mm camera and not macro so fine lines are not always visible.
In my picture gallery the leopard gun shows fine shading to the scrolls, ok, not crystal clear but you're able to get the idea of what's going on.

As for game scenes etc......a different ballgame, no strict rules for these, and even macro shots for the "Blacks" etc won't show you the different steps.

Phil

 

[Ron Smith]

Arnaud,

The dental rubber I use is a two part toothpaste type of stuff. Two tubes, and you mix them together and they set up Pretty fast, no heat.

You just "butter" the piece you want to copy, and build it up to a reasonable thickness. I then put a fence around it (wood slats) and pour plaster over it to give it a rigid flat base so when you turn it over to pour your plastic compound in it, it sits level. The result will be a master that you can make many from by making a gang mold. You can do this with RTV mold material that you get from jewelry supply. It is also two part, but comes in larger containers, also no heat.

You make a number of "masters" and then make a fence around it and pour RTV mold material over them all and you will have a numbeer of the same coy. You can make 4 or 6 at the same time.

Hope this helps.

Ron S

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Thanks you all for the your help with your overwhelming quantity of information.

And as I experienced my whole life, "the more you know the more questions you have"

arnaud