Help, please: I want out!

[JBrandvik]

... Out from under my microscope that is...

I’d really like to get out from under the microscope but I have to admit also that the thing has spoiled me. I use a magna-visor when I can, but it seems like there ought to be something better with regard power of magnification.

I am considering laying out the cash for a good pair of dental loupes to free myself from the scope more, but I don’t want to throw away good money if the dental loupes aren’t going to do me any better than the magna-visor.

Is anybody using something they would recommend? Please let me know things like;

• Best brands other than Zeiss (which even Dentists can't afford)
• Working distance
• Depth of view
• Magnification level (I see them from 2.5X to 6X)

Thanks,

 

[jetta77]

Why do you want to get out from under the scope? I just sold my obrira's cause I don't use them anymore, no need to when I got a scope. No eye strain, no crooked back, better work....

just curious

Jeff

 

[Ron Smith]

Jim,

I use a magnivisor and a set of loups that were made for me. I had ten power lenses made for close up work, distance is about 4 inches. I have a visor that I do general work with. It is a # 10 or I think 3 1/2 power. Working distance about 6 inches.

I don't use a scope as I wear glasses which narrows down the field of view and i have to keep taking them off and on to see art I am working from. Not worth it.

You might could tell an optimotrist what you need and he could make up some lenses for you.

Things to consider:

Weight for long hours can give you a headache so keep it lite.
Check out Phillip Grifnee's loups. I don't know what power, but it is a head band with an extension on it that puts two lenses out about three inches from th bridge of your nose similar to mine shown.

the angle of the lenses need to be adjusted for the distance your eyes are apart. Mine used to have an adjustment untill it finally broke. I knew by the the angle so i made my own.

Here is my ten power loups:

They are a little heavy, but they have heavy glass lenses. You could take the lenses out and just use the frames to mount the two lenses onto if you otherwise have good eyes.

 

[kcrutche]

Jim

I don't have any actual experience with dental loupes, but I have read several posts where people were very unhappy with them.

I to like to use the magna-visor when I can (great field of view).

I would want some hands on before I put out very much money.

Ken

 

[Kevin P.]

I agree with Jeff (jetta77).

"Best brands other than Zeiss (which even Dentists can't afford)" The quality of your work should earn you the Zeiss.

Otherwise: on another forum there was a very intensive review of the question you're asking. The answer was Zeiss; if I remember correctly about $3600.
This was from someone I highly respect.
Kevin P.

 

[Sam]

I've tried many types of headset magnifiers, from Optivisors to Zeiss surgical loupes. I've been mainly disappointed in two things: 1.) lack of power as they don't come close to a microscope's power, and 2.) razor thin plane of focus which is difficult to maintain if you move your head a fraction of an inch. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try them and it doesn't mean you can't do great work with lower power. Churchill uses a 3x Optivisor and admits his work isn't as clean as those using high power scopes. But for my work I'm very happy with my stereo microscope, and I've been using one every day since 1982, for whatever that's worth.

 

[Dave London]

Hi Jim
Well I just purchased the Zeiss surgical loupes 4.5X 350mm working distance, 2 inch FOV. Still like the microscope best but nice to have the flexablity the loupue provide, Check with Zeiss they will put in contact with your local rep, ask for used or demo equipment I got about a 1/3 discount but still not cheap. Dave

 

[JBrandvik]

Jeff, the are several reasons I'd like the flexibility of escaping from my microscope.

• I have had three major back surgeries as of my last operation, I now have 7 fuzed vertibrae. Sitting for long periods of time is no longer much fun for me.

• Another reason is portability (or lack of). My wife and business agent tells me I need to get out more often to get more people exposed to my work. I am resisting her, but I fear resistance my ultimately be futile.

• Finally, I do a little H&C work. I'm not much good at it, but I enjoy it and would really like to do more of it/get better at it. To my way of thinking H&C work is just not doable using a scope. The working distance of my Magnavisor is only about 4 inches and I'd like to be able to get a bit further away from the work surface. Not to mention that I can't wear my hat while wearing the visor.

Ron, thanks for the information. Your setup looks comfortable and 6" is better than 4" for a working distance. I may take your recommendation about seeing my eye doctor about a custom set of spectacles.

Ken, Kevin and Sam, thanks for the information. I'll try to dig up the review you mentioned, Kevin. Sam, I have heard that the focal depth is just a fraction of what the magnivisor gives, but I think I could get used to that with time.

Dave, Thanks for the information. Can you speak to the depth of focus issue mentioned above? I'd also be interested in whether you tried out other brands before settling on the Zeiss. Right now, I am a long way from deciding that over $2K is the way for me to go.

 

[quickcut07]

If you look at your magnivisor power and then look at the power rating of loupes you will find them to be very close with the working distance very similar. The only change will be what is not left in your pocket. You will gain clarity but read what cons have been stated to you then again check your pocket book. Gadgets are neat even hanging on the wall, got some.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Jim
I have been using a optivisor for close to a gazillion years and still prefer it in many ways to my microscope. Don't get me wrong the microscope is great and I am glad I have it to use. But most of my work including by game scenes are done almost exclusively with the optivisor. Now a lot depends on your eyesight. I take my glasses off when I work as i have perfect reading vision. I like the freedom it gives me and I also like being able to see a bigger area when I engrave. i can always go to the microscope for sections i need to nit pick on. I use a number 10 optivisor which I believe translates to about 3 1/2 power

 

[jr hoot gibson]

With some 3/4 to 1" small plastic or brass tubing, longer bolts, you can place your optivisor lens out further and change the working distance. Remove the lens and play with the distance to get the exact distance that works best. Cut your tubes to that distance, replace the bolts with some longer , and you are good to go. I have done this with all my optivisores.
Hoot

 

[RT Bit and Spur]

I use a camera and a monator to do my close up work. I saw this at a GRS booth. That way I can sit anyway I want and can have my vice at any angle I need. If I want to change it thats ok to.
Rod

 

[John B.]

Hi Jim,
You have a lot of good advise here.
I have had several pairs in different magpower over the years.
Most of them were Neitz brand, Japanese, decent optics at a doable price.
About $450-$500 and well made.
I couldn't get over my idea that they would be the real quill for H&C because if the long focal distance.
Not being too smart I had to convince myself several time that I was wrong.
As Sam pointed out they have a razor thin flat field of focus and the hammering makes
your head move just enough to jump out of focus.
I tried a leather strap headrest.....no joy there either.
And I don't think they will help your back problem as you have to force yourself to hold your head very very still.
See if you can get a loaner before you buy.
Another way I kinda invented to use H&S under the scope is with a little slide hammer I made up. Takes some getting use to.
It also helps to use more reduction on the objective lens and can gain you a hair more working room. Even with a .3 Barlow lens you have still got nearly 15 power and that beats any head set I know of.
I'm pretty lucky and can still use a optivisor for 80% of my work but the day will come....
Best.

 

[qndrgnsdd]

I bought mine from a company in Virginia called Microsurgery Instrumentsa they were $700 have a 14inch focal length and a respectable depth of field. I also use optivisors and the loupes are at least twice as powerful as my #10 optivisor. They are a bit heavy but I can wear them for about 6 hours before my nose begins to ache. I would buy them again !

 

[jlseymour]

Jim I have a Mantis and have been testing to see if I like it better than the Meji scope, so far I'm pleased with it and less eye strain...
Jerry

 

[Karl Stubenvoll]

Virtually all of my jewelry benchwork is done with the #715 OPTICAID. At a 5 diopter(2 1/4X) magnification, I use it on safety glasses with lenses ground to a very close reading prescription. I discussed my needs with my optometrist and am happy with the results. I don't know the reading prescription correction, so I can't tell you the total magnification this combination gives me, but the depth of field is not a problem. These are very lightweight and let me keep a much cooler head than wearing an Optivisor.

The OPTICAIDS do the job of Ron's special glasses for about $22. 7D(2.75X) and 10D(3.5X) versions are also available at the same pricing. I get mine through Stuller, but they are available elsewhere(not at Rio Grande.) I've used the 7D version to free myself from the microscope when necessary, but still prefer the scope for engraving.

 

[Kevin P.]

Marty my eyesight is like yours. I'm going to try the #10. I dismissed it without checking it out. I love the microscope but the optivisor is a good option for some jobs.
Kevin P.

 

[JBrandvik]

Thanks guys!

Lots of good information here. I guess during the course of this exchange I have come to realize that the only thing I dislike about the optivisor is the short working distance, so I have some new tricks to try for resolving that problem.

Hoot, I expect you may have graduated from the bailing-wire and ducktape school of engineering. I am going to give your idea a try first.

John, your slide hammer invention sounds interesting. I'm sure others must feel the same way. Can you post a picture? I used to play the slide-trombone in junior high, how different could it be to play the slide-hammer?

Thanks again for all the input.

Best,

 

[John B.]

Jim B.
There I go with my big mouth again! The last little slide hammer I made I gave to a student who needed to uses a scope but didn't like power handpieces.
I don't have one at the moment but will try to make another one when I can.
I no longer have access to the mills and lathes at school but should be able to work around that problem using some revisions.
If I get it done and take a decent picture I will send you one.
Best,

 

[Dave London]

Jim
The depth of field is shallow but not hard to keep in focus, I have the headband type so no strain on the beak. If you google surgical loupes there is a outfit in Texas that sells them (not zeiss). Good luck with your search