Is it ok to engrave over pins on lockback kife?

[RyanCol]

I'm going to engrave the brass bolsters on a buck 110 lockback knife. I was assuming that I should not engrave over the pins. Am I assuming correctly? Or, is there a way to engrave over them and not compromise the knife? Am I worrying about nothing?
Help is very much appreciated.

 

[monk]

not sure about that particular model, but ihave done bucks both ways. if you do the pins you might expect a bit of diffference in the hardness of the material. just proceed carefully if you decide to cut thru them. one note: in my naivete, i'm really not sure if there's a rule governing this, or not. many here will know.

 

[RyanCol]

Thanks Monk. I would rather cut through them so that I don't have work the scroll around them. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[monk]

post a pic, if you please. it's worth a thousand words.

 

[Dulltool]

RyanCol,
I've been engraving approximately three pocket knifes a week for the past six months.... I have always engrave over the pin and have never had a problem with either the engraving aspect or the function of the knife.

 

[TC_Blades]

I can only give my opinion as a knife maker, not as an engraver (a bit of experience required in the latter I'm afraid) but from a knife maker's point of view, the pin will always be a bit harder than the bolster as it is often peened thus making the material a bit more brittle and hard. If this has a bearing on the actual behavior of the graver - I can only assume it will since you will be running into more brittle material - but I also think that it can be overcome by practicing such a situation by inserting some pins into a brass plate and "getting used" to the situation before that actual work is attempted. Having said all this, please keep in mind that I am a VERY inexperience engraver. just my 2 cents...

 

[RyanCol]

Thank you everyone. This has been very helpful.

 

[Roger Bleile]

I engraved three Buck 110's a few weeks ago and have cut them in the past. Cut right through the pin. It will have a slightly different resistance than the rest of the bolster but not much.

CRB

 

[RyanCol]

Thank you Mr. Bleile.

 

[Rick Eaton]

RyanCol,
Alot of the knives I've engraved are over pins. One important thing to keep in mind. Generally a pin is used to hold the knife together, and wether it is a flush or raised pin it puts the right amont of tightness on the blade. The bolsters generally are countersunk then the pin is peaned.
If you are going to cut below the countersink ( if all the pin was in the background) I would cut below the finished surface leaving the pin slightly higher then repean the pin.
Now you would have a problem with getting the knife too tight. What I do in the begining before I start to engrave, on all the folders I engrave is, hot glue a wedge the same thickness as the blade and clearance, by the blade that will keep the knife from tightening up and preserve the original specs. This way you can inlay gold without any problem of tightening the knife and ruinning the smoothness of the action.
Hope this helps
Rick

 

[Marrinan]

Excellent tips Rick-Thanks Fred

 

[RyanCol]

1st engraved knife

Thanks for the tips everyone. This is the knife I engraved. It's my first. Your constructive criticism would be much appreciated.

 

[tengraver]

I would echo what most of the others have said. If you are making light cuts those pins are like hitting a patch of ice on the road! So beware! I wouldn't worry about cutting through them because the bevel on them is much deeper than your engraving will be. Have fun!

 

[pilkguns]

I can't really see the individual cuts in this photo, but overall the pattern looks good and scrolls are round

 

[fegarex]

For a first attempt it looks real nice but I am going to be a nit-picky for your benefit....
The right bolster pattern has nice flow but the leaves on the backbone are going in the wrong direction.
The left bolster has a nice pattern but in my opinion if it was reversed it would have had better flow and mirrored the right one better. Then both scrolls would be flowing "out" so to speak.
The photo is too small to actually see the cuts but it appears as if they are pretty clean.
Nice job for a first!

 

[pilkguns]

gee I must not have had enough caffeine this moring, Rex is right. What was I lookig at?

 

[RyanCol]

Close-ups

Thank you for the advice Rex. That's exactly the kind of help I need.
Sorry about the picture. Here's some close-ups.
Also, there are some fine scratches in the brass. They don't show much in the pictures, but I would like to remove them. What is the best way to polish them out without effecting the engraving?

 

[fegarex]

Ryan,
Glad to help. Sometimes I worry that people are only posting for a "pat on the back" and not really looking for constructive criticism. I feel all the help you can get, the better.
As far as the actual cutting of the scroll, I will leave that up to someone like Ron Smith. I haven't messed enough with the transition scroll to give decent advice. I think it looks pretty decent and will get better with practice. Your tool control looks decent and will only get better with time. I will point out another "beginner mistake" in my opinion... Stay away from interlocking scrolls for a while. They look neat but they have to be done right. As you can see in the bolster you attempted to do this way, it gave you a fit. It may have looked great in pencil but was a bear to engrave and look right.
Again, for a first attempt it looks great. I wish mine would have looked this nice! Keep it up!
Rex

 

[RyanCol]

Rex,
I do appreciate you criticism and advice very much. I much prefer to hear that type of feedback. Better a wounded ego that leads to improvement (and humility which is good too), than a pat on the back. Not that you wounded my ego. But thank you for the guidance.
I did struggle with the interlocked scroll. I tried a similar pattern on a practice plate, and it went much better. I guess it's one thing to engrave on a small flat sheet of metal, and another to do the same thing on a knife. I will take your advice and stick with simpler scrolls for now.
I struggled holding the knife. My bench is adapted much better to stone setting. I quickly realized that I didn't have the clearance to work on something this big (I needed to lower the ball and bring it away from the bench so that I could turn the knife. While engraving this piece I made some adjustments that seemed to help. Now, I'll have to get used to how things are setup again.
Thanks again for your critique, it's very valuable to me.

 

[fegarex]

Ryan,
Glad to hear that! I think anyone that makes critique here does it to help and as you say it only helps. Long before the forums I would take samples to the FEGA annual meeting and tell other engravers to "tear it apart" and don't feel afraid to hurt my feelings... None of them hurt my feelings but ALL gave me great advice.
I forgot to answer the scratching question...
Now... This is my opinion and your mileage may vary... I tend to like a "matte" finish on my engraving for the most part. Something like that knife could have a 800 grit finish and show off the bright cuts real well. Now here is the tricky part.... You may be able to remove some of the scratches with 600/800 sandpaper on a sanding block without effecting the engraving. Then again, it might not. I guess it depends on how deep the engraving is. Just don't try it without a firm backing. Perhaps someone that has done more of this will have a different or better idea as well.