Help, please: Is this hand engraved?

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Thread starter #1
Hello dear engravers!

I was glad to join this forum as I’m seeking for help from you, as you’re all more educated than me on the topic of hand engraving!

My hobby is collecting old daggers and I am currently interested in obtaining a new one.

The dagger has a number inscribed on the upper crossguard of the dagger.

As authenticity is very important for me I wanted to ask if the engraving was made by hand, a machine or something new?

Other collectors said that this was maybe done by a rotary engraving machine, thus meaning that the number was made later as the dagger was produced.

Could you help me and say what you all think about the numbers?

Any help would be much appreciated!

Sincerely
Blueprint 43689CD7-502A-46A5-8453-D947C9636396.jpeg
 
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Thread starter #3
Thanks for your reply FANCYGUN.

Do you think that it was made with a graver or something else e.g. a Sharp screwdriver?

The Crossguard is made of nickel plated steel.

Yours
Blueprint
 
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Thread starter #6
Hand cut. Look at the bottom serifs of the 1s. The cut was started thin on the right then popped out at the end on the left. No rotary machine did that.
Very good!
And how about the "0"? Do you think that it also was hand engraved as it is more difficult to engrave a smooth "0"? It looks like, that the owner had a hard time engraving it.


You saving my day. I knew that the colleagues of mine didn't knew everything when it comes to engraving. :)
 

monk

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#7
even the zero has irregularities that say it was done by hand. a better , glare free closeup might reveal what kind of cutter/graver was used here.
 

mitch

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#9
"Other collectors said that this was maybe done by a rotary engraving machine, thus meaning that the number was made later as the dagger was produced. "

the lettering is unquestionably engraved by hand, but that doesn't necessarily answer the question of when it was done. one of us could have done that last week...
 

allan621

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#10
"Other collectors said that this was maybe done by a rotary engraving machine, thus meaning that the number was made later as the dagger was produced. "

the lettering is unquestionably engraved by hand, but that doesn't necessarily answer the question of when it was done. one of us could have done that last week...
I remember seeing an antiques roadshow about a watch supposedly given to Wyatt Earp by some grateful citizens and was engraved with a matching inscription. The experts said because of the inscription it must have been given to Earp. But me watching this noticed the lettering was sharp and bright while the rest of the case was worn. Engraving added later? Possibly. Engraving recut? Possibly. Truly authentic? Possibly.

And I'd say the dagger engraving was done with a flat tool.

Allan
 
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Thread starter #12
Thanks for your reply’s!

But it proofs that a new machine wasn’t used to do this. It’s important that it was made by hand thus meaning that the individual did it by hand as many others did back then (or not. It surely could be done last week but the general patina matches IMO).

Goldjockey: You are Right. It’s an Dienstdolch from the SS. It has the same handle like an Ehrendolch but this one is just an normal dagger.

Mostly the serial number was stamped on the dagger but there were some exceptions as some did the engraving by themselves.
 

mitch

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#13
"It surely could be done last week but the general patina matches IMO"

i was just having fun with you. while there are also ways to fake patina, wear, etc., judging by the one close-up it appears your dagger is genuine, and genuinely old, even if the serial number may or may not have been done right at the time of manufacture. can you find any pics of similar pieces? can you post a shot of this entire piece, just for our curiosity?
 
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Thread starter #14
"i was just having fun with you. "

I understand. ;-)

That's what I think too. A member on the other forum believes that the dark fills in the numbers were painted afterwards to create a fake patina. But I doubt it, as the general patina of the dagger matches the spots in the numbers.

I show you some shots of the dagger for your interest:

2.jpg 3 zensiert.jpg 4.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg Dolch zensiert 1.jpg
 
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Thread starter #15
And here are some other daggers with individual numbers:

The first are the way on how the sould've be done back then: Stamped. And the last ones are individual engravings.
 

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