Marcus Hunt
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I've been doing a little bit of thinking lately (dangerous I know, LOL) about things that have been said on another thread and am interested to know what other people think about the subject.
To some extent I get the impression that a lot of Master Engravers are looked on by some novices almost as 'gurus'. It seems (to me anyway) that to some extent the experienced engravers are held in some "Master v Grasshopper" point of view and I find this a little bit worrying. There seems to be a little bit of imbalance occasionally and by this I mean the experienced engraver is looked upon as if they have all the answers. To all you novices out there I'd like to say this, "We don't have all the answers, just a lot of experience." And in the same way, we have different ways of doing things. Master/experienced/professional engravers are not gurus, we are just ordinary guys who happen to make a living from engraving and should not be looked upon as some sort of oracle.
So what do I mean by this? Well, basically there is more than one way to skin a cat and a lot of engravers use differing techniques to reach similar results. There are certain 'rules' with engraving, however, that need to be followed but when enough experience is gained with the basics, the rules can be bent with excellent results. But the fundamentals need to be learned first.
The best way to learn these fundamentals by far is to be able to work along side a master engraver. This isn't an easy thing to do as apprenticeships are not easy to come by and the majority of engravers nowadays are looking to engraving almost as a second career so are coming to the art much later in life. So the next best way to learn is to take some classes in the basics. This will jump start the novices engraving career and enables a master engraver to pass enough knowledge to the student so they can go away and practice what they've been taught.
The third way and, in my opinion the most difficult, is the self taught route. This is really tough and the novice needs to be able to focus on one thing at a time for a long time until they get it right. This takes incredible discipline and the boredom factor can kick in early which means the temptation to skip over some aspects is a danger. Also needed is an eye for observation and replication of what one sees. To often we interpret something we think we see as opposed to what we actually see. This results in all sorts of mistakes being made which leads me to the need to be honest with one's self.
Before posting something for critique take the time to sit back or go and do something else so you can look at what you've produced with fresh eyes. Then ask yourself if it conforms to the basic rules? If you're a beginner, take the time to learn the basics of scrollwork (which can be found in Ron's books) if you don't know them. If you're more advanced you may be bending the rules but ask yourself if something is aesthetically pleasing? Either way be honest with yourself first and foremost. If you're asking for advice or critique tell us first what you think is wrong with it. It may be that it's not worth worrying about or it might be a huge bloomer that you don't know how to deal with. But make the effort, please.
Whilst everyone is eager to share advice, the beginner should be aware that not all advice is the same. Whilst someone might be listed as having hundreds of posts on the forum it doesn't necessarily follow that they're experienced engravers. Above all, this forum is not meant to take the place of a class or learning properly. It should not be a place to come to be spoon fed how-to-do things or "help me become.....". This is very important. Why should a professional engraver part with every one of the things they've taken a lifetime to garner? We are willing (very willing in fact) to share when we see efforts being made which result in mistakes. The experienced on the forum will willingly guide you back to the path but they should not be expected to take you by the hand and lead you to your destination; that is your job. A lot of the techniques the experienced engravers have under their belts is only by years of trial and error and experimentation.
Some folks seem to think that classes are pushed a bit too much, which is fine. The reason taking a class is suggested is to get a good disciplined grounding in engraving. Classes are not a short cut but they will help in guiding the novice as to the basics and how to implement them for best results. But classes are not the only route if for example you can't make it to/afford a class. The self taught route is tougher but that is not to say it can't be done. It might just take you a little longer if you decide on this method.
So please, do not take this as a "don't post until you can xyz". Continue to show work for critique and don't be afraid to ask for advice. But please, don't always expect to be spoon fed information. Half the fun of engraving is the journey, experimentation and overcoming obstacles and hurdles. Sometimes you need a leg up but it is only you that can ultimately reach your goal.
And by the way, this is only my opinion not necessarily those of the management. Please feel free to discuss and agree or disagree with me.
To some extent I get the impression that a lot of Master Engravers are looked on by some novices almost as 'gurus'. It seems (to me anyway) that to some extent the experienced engravers are held in some "Master v Grasshopper" point of view and I find this a little bit worrying. There seems to be a little bit of imbalance occasionally and by this I mean the experienced engraver is looked upon as if they have all the answers. To all you novices out there I'd like to say this, "We don't have all the answers, just a lot of experience." And in the same way, we have different ways of doing things. Master/experienced/professional engravers are not gurus, we are just ordinary guys who happen to make a living from engraving and should not be looked upon as some sort of oracle.
So what do I mean by this? Well, basically there is more than one way to skin a cat and a lot of engravers use differing techniques to reach similar results. There are certain 'rules' with engraving, however, that need to be followed but when enough experience is gained with the basics, the rules can be bent with excellent results. But the fundamentals need to be learned first.
The best way to learn these fundamentals by far is to be able to work along side a master engraver. This isn't an easy thing to do as apprenticeships are not easy to come by and the majority of engravers nowadays are looking to engraving almost as a second career so are coming to the art much later in life. So the next best way to learn is to take some classes in the basics. This will jump start the novices engraving career and enables a master engraver to pass enough knowledge to the student so they can go away and practice what they've been taught.
The third way and, in my opinion the most difficult, is the self taught route. This is really tough and the novice needs to be able to focus on one thing at a time for a long time until they get it right. This takes incredible discipline and the boredom factor can kick in early which means the temptation to skip over some aspects is a danger. Also needed is an eye for observation and replication of what one sees. To often we interpret something we think we see as opposed to what we actually see. This results in all sorts of mistakes being made which leads me to the need to be honest with one's self.
Before posting something for critique take the time to sit back or go and do something else so you can look at what you've produced with fresh eyes. Then ask yourself if it conforms to the basic rules? If you're a beginner, take the time to learn the basics of scrollwork (which can be found in Ron's books) if you don't know them. If you're more advanced you may be bending the rules but ask yourself if something is aesthetically pleasing? Either way be honest with yourself first and foremost. If you're asking for advice or critique tell us first what you think is wrong with it. It may be that it's not worth worrying about or it might be a huge bloomer that you don't know how to deal with. But make the effort, please.
Whilst everyone is eager to share advice, the beginner should be aware that not all advice is the same. Whilst someone might be listed as having hundreds of posts on the forum it doesn't necessarily follow that they're experienced engravers. Above all, this forum is not meant to take the place of a class or learning properly. It should not be a place to come to be spoon fed how-to-do things or "help me become.....". This is very important. Why should a professional engraver part with every one of the things they've taken a lifetime to garner? We are willing (very willing in fact) to share when we see efforts being made which result in mistakes. The experienced on the forum will willingly guide you back to the path but they should not be expected to take you by the hand and lead you to your destination; that is your job. A lot of the techniques the experienced engravers have under their belts is only by years of trial and error and experimentation.
Some folks seem to think that classes are pushed a bit too much, which is fine. The reason taking a class is suggested is to get a good disciplined grounding in engraving. Classes are not a short cut but they will help in guiding the novice as to the basics and how to implement them for best results. But classes are not the only route if for example you can't make it to/afford a class. The self taught route is tougher but that is not to say it can't be done. It might just take you a little longer if you decide on this method.
So please, do not take this as a "don't post until you can xyz". Continue to show work for critique and don't be afraid to ask for advice. But please, don't always expect to be spoon fed information. Half the fun of engraving is the journey, experimentation and overcoming obstacles and hurdles. Sometimes you need a leg up but it is only you that can ultimately reach your goal.
And by the way, this is only my opinion not necessarily those of the management. Please feel free to discuss and agree or disagree with me.
