Lindsay modified handgraver

[Phil Coggan]

I very much like the smoothness of the wood in the Italian handle, Phil. Somebody knew what they were doing. It makes me want to reach into the picture and try yours. Great stuff. Thanks very much.

The "wood" is actually plastic, I have found in the few years I have been engraving that for very fine work such as game scenes, the streamline shape works well as there are no lumps directly next to the graver that can touch the work.

Phil

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

The "wood" is actually plastic, I have found in the few years I have been engraving that for very fine work such as game scenes, the streamline shape works well as there are no lumps directly next to the graver that can touch the work.

Phil

If by lump, you are refering to the collar on my graver handle I have never had any issues with clearance, but like I said prior, it works for me. I guess it might not for others.

 

[sam]

Great thread! You guys are making me rethink my hand gravers. Mine have always felt awkward and uncomfortable and I never knew why. I thought maybe I was sharpening them incorrectly, but now I'm thinking it could be the black tape.

 

[Phil Coggan]

Nah! Sam...your problem is the colour

Phil

 

[monk]

omg !! that thing should be illegal. say it isn't so.

 

[JeffLiles]

Lindsay modified handgraver: Update

I just received the new style from Lindsay. It is on the right in the 2 pics. Actually, there are multiple changes. The end result might be less costly to produce but I think less adaptable for the engraver who modifies the handpieces.



The new Lindsay is drilled off-center for the graver. There is also a spiral-contoured shape to the fatter side, the side with more material. The depth of the drilled hole into the piece is much more shallow than on the original Lindsay, a real problem I will explain below. Also the new one appears designed with the expectation that people will want to pull it out and place it in another handle, the new one having a narrowed section at the back. This amounts to quite a reduction in material weight and costs.

In my thinking, this was a bit too big of a jump in materials. So instead of having some steel to trim down, there is nothing that can be trimmed that would not place the handpiece in danger of being too thin for security's sake. I think there could have been a medium place, somewhere in between these 2 versions. My preference, without having yet used the new one, is the old one. The old style has an unrivaled solid feel and can be trimmed or otherwise modified to suit, and the hole drilled for the graver goes at least .5 in. deeper than the new style into the piece without creating any concern for sidewall thinness. Since the new style has an off-center hole, you cannot drill this hole any deeper without blowing the sidewall.

I will be keeping both, but the new style comes with an awareness that it cannot be used the same ways completely. Since I would prefer a wider handle than either one provides and a wooden material, neither one comes stock like I would deem usable.
When I fix a new handle to the new one, the graver tip for a new graver will stick out a long way. So I will only be able to use it for gravers half used up. My hope is that some of you who have Steve Lindsay's ear would encourage still another revision, something that adds a bit more steel and a deeper hole drilling. Meanwhile, has anyone been able to modify the new version?
Thank you.
Jeff

 

[Phil Coggan]

A few years ago Steve and I worked on a graver mod, this is one of the demo's with the underside machined away, I added the ground down extention, a small graver can be lengthened even more by inserting a 1/4" rod into the extention.

Phil

 

[Leland Davis]

sam's, post makes it obvious it's not what your using it's who is using it.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Great thread! You guys are making me rethink my hand gravers. Mine have always felt awkward and uncomfortable and I never knew why. I thought maybe I was sharpening them incorrectly, but now I'm thinking it could be the black tape.

Somehow I don't think this would be legal in states and countries with strict weapons control laws. ;~)

 

[Chujybear]

I just received the new style from Lindsay. It is on the right in the 2 pics. Actually, there are multiple changes. The end result might be less costly to produce but I think less adaptable for the engraver who modifies the

Looks to me like the bore is, perhaps not shorter, but rather the whole tool is shorter (amounting to the tool tip extending just as far out of your hand as the other? In other words if you measure fr the top of the mushroom forward, does the bore bottom out in the same place? That’s all that matters.
I could see the disappointment if you are planning on sculpting up your handle into something glorious, but from the pictures, it looks like plenty of holding meat? Perhaps, you are saying that the bore goes in at an angle, which would amount to a risk to the sidewalks, otherwise, I’m missing something here.

View attachment 42690 View attachment 42691

The new Lindsay is drilled off-center for the graver. There is also a spiral-contoured shape to the fatter side, the side with more material. The depth of the drilled hole into the piece is much more shallow than on the original Lindsay, a real problem I will explain below. Also the new one appears designed with the expectation that people will want to pull it out and place it in another handle, the new one having a narrowed section at the back. This amounts to quite a reduction in material weight and costs.

In my thinking, this was a bit too big of a jump in materials. So instead of having some steel to trim down, there is nothing that can be trimmed that would not place the handpiece in danger of being too thin for security's sake. I think there could have been a medium place, somewhere in between these 2 versions. My preference, without having yet used the new one, is the old one. The old style has an unrivaled solid feel and can be trimmed or otherwise modified to suit, and the hole drilled for the graver goes at least .5 in. deeper than the new style into the piece without creating any concern for sidewall thinness. Since the new style has an off-center hole, you cannot drill this hole any deeper without blowing the sidewall.

I will be keeping both, but the new style comes with an awareness that it cannot be used the same ways completely. Since I would prefer a wider handle than either one provides and a wooden material, neither one comes stock like I would deem usable.
When I fix a new handle to the new one, the graver tip for a new graver will stick out a long way. So I will only be able to use it for gravers half used up. My hope is that some of you who have Steve Lindsay's ear would encourage still another revision, something that adds a bit more steel and a deeper hole drilling. Meanwhile, has anyone been able to modify the new version?
Thank you.
Jeff

Are you sure that the overall tool isn’t just shorter (with some section of the original bore being “cut off” in the new design)?
If you measure from he top of the mushroom forward, and both bores bottom out in the same place, then, at least, that aspect of their utility would be identical.
As far as the shape, the older version definitely looks like a nicer canvas for sculpture, but there is plenty of holding meat around the bore that, unless the bore angles towards the thin side, I can’t see how you would be prevented fr drilling it out? If it does angle towards the lighter sidewall, that would seem like a design flaw for sure.. tho, it’s designrd to function optimally, and so maybe Steve isn’t anticipating mods on them. I always find the pneumatic graver manual holders to be too long.

 

[JeffLiles]

Those are good questions, questions I would have. That's why I photod these side by side. The straight comparison answers most of those questions. By having a narrowing lip on the new one, the one on the right, you create wall thickness issue since you have already drilled the hole off-center. Steve Lindsay knows this, I can tell, because he stopped the hole about 3 mm short of that lip. The result is that your initial graver tip will be .5 in farther out that it was with the old handle. Depthing that hole from the tip tells the truth. Depthing is a simple exercise. The bore into the new tool is a full half inch shorter hole, and it cannot be deeper without delivering a tool with a sidewall issue.

I very much like the old tool because of all the original reasons above. Steve likes to create svelt tools, and we know those are the tools we like to use. I think in this instance I made an order not realizing the change and received an "improved" tool that is ever-so-slightly overworked. It still has application, but I will use it when my graver lengths are about half, and I will need to have a different handle for it right out of the box. So yes, a design issue.