Critique Request Novice - Deliberately Going Around in Circles - Hand Pushing

Crossbolt

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I thought I'd post this photograph of a recent practice plate and some comments so other novices can get a feel for what others are doing and see there's someone doing rougher work than them :)

After doodling around with various graver cuts I found one I felt consistently comfortable with hand pushing and decided to test it out hand pushing doing a variety of circles. What I settled on was a Dubber Speitzer round heel ground small using the Lindsay template. I put almost no heel on it and it seems to do fine. I had spent some time fiddling with assorted onglettes and haven't got the Lindsay template to work hand pushing and the other jewelers gravers feel too large ... I have it in my head they should work so I'll return to them once I practice a bit more so I can feel what they should be doing.

My approach on this was to do varying sizes to varying depths, starting with a scribed circle from a template then adding inner and outer circles by eye. Obviously the results are those of a beginner... they look like Tom Brady had something to do with most of them :). If anyone sees anything they want to comment on by all means fire away.

I have a few observations to pass on that might be helpful to fellow beginners.

1. Preparation - This made an ENORMOUS difference. I don't think practice plates I had were prepared well previously and were contributing to trouble hand pushing. I reground the surface of this and successively took it all the way down to 1200. I found the cutting very much improved.

2. Scribing - Comments requested here. I scribed the original free standing circles. I find it easiest to cut on the scribe line rather than slightly to one side. I also think this saves the problem of possibly having to polish off scribe marks on a piece. Is this a good approach or not?

3. Feel. I've been working on grip focusing on trying to use my thumb and avoid top finger pressure. What I find helps and produces comfortable cutting is to feel the push not in my fingers or thumb but at the base of my palm and my elbow (if that makes sense).


4. Pushing - I find in the vise that with circles (as opposed to lines) I'm not so much pushing as maintaining graver position and turning the metal into the graver with my other hand.

5. Depth - I found it much easier to control shallow cuts than deep - the lack of material to resist popping out is much less of a problem than the amount of force in deep cutting leading to less control and serious pop outs when they do occur.

Obviously a lot more practice needed but I hope some find this a relevant reference point if nothing else. Oh, and if it isn't obvious the material is low carbon steel.

Jeremy
 

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Roger Bleile

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You are on the right track. Too many beginners here attempt to cut complicated scrollwork before they have mastered the tool control to cut straight lines and circles.
 

Sam

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4. Pushing - I find in the vise that with circles (as opposed to lines) I'm not so much pushing as maintaining graver position and turning the metal into the graver with my other hand.

Exactly. The graver is stationary and the rotation of the vise moves the metal into the graver. Trying it any other way is awkward and probably impossible to do with any amount of control.

The rotating vise makes you appreciate how lucky you are to have one when you consider that Ken Hunt learned to engrave on a metal practice plate attached to a round wooden handle braced against a wooden bench pin with U-shaped notch.
 

Crossbolt

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Roger and Sam
I appreciate the replies.
Yes I can't imagine using one of the old tools like the hand / wedge "vises ". On the other hand I am intrigued by Ken's sketches of the gravers he uses and will see if I can understand and duplicate them in the near future. I am particularly interested in getting a small enough graver to get the feel of "springiness" to flick out the end of cut burr.
Jeremy
 

Bluetickhound

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I haven't gotten my straight lines up to snuff yet so I can't speak to doing circles but a lot of what you say rings true to me. My plates are copper so they're pretty smooth to start with but what I've noticed (in my extremely limited experience) is that if you feel yourself "pushing" the graver something isn't right, if that makes sense. Once I get a cut started it really is a matter of guiding the graver and maintaining smooth momentum. I try to concentrate on what my arm feels like when a cut is progressing nicely and what I seem to notice is that it's equal parts shoulder, tricep and forearm focusing into my palm rather than all bicep and forearm focusing into my fingers. A tight death grip on the graver isn't what has worked for me so far but that's me. I notice in some of Sam's videos he uses his free thumb to brace his graving hand and that technique has paid dividends for me also. Shallower cut are easier to control but (again, for me personally) only up to a point. If I don't have enough purchase in the copper that graver is gonna get away from me. I have a stab wound (my first!!) in my right index finger to show for it too...
 
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monk

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you have mastered the golden rule that affects all. when you find a graver that feels comfortable for what you're trying to do, that's the graver/geometry to fly with. as experience is gained, the very nature of what you do will lead you to experiment with other gravers. one day, you'll likely be comfortable with most of them.
 

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