Critique Request Or ridicule request... Money Clip, my first REAL engraving.

[Mike_Morgan]

A little preface... I've been engraving a few months, with absolutely no previous experience. I made the money clip out of full-hard Phosphor Bronze and I free-handed the backbone of the scroll about two months ago. It's not great, I get that... but it was a first shot at cutting something that wasn't a practice plate made of copper.

The leaves and leaf structure was added a month later, when I was feeling more confident in my cutting abilities... it's pretty obvious that I had absolutely no clue that there are rules to scroll design... I was oblivious to that fact until I started reading more about scroll design in some of the threads here on the forum. Some (OK, MOST) of them don't follow the growth from the point of origin... who knew?

So I used the money clip with just the outlines until today, and I was feeling pretty good about how my practice plates were doing, and I decided that TODAY is the day I will do the shading. It sort of "evolved" as the day progressed... finally I tried my hand at some stippling in the negative space.

YES... I know the border, which I cut in over a month ago is about as straight as the cast of La Cage aux Folles, and if I had cut it today it would be better, but I feel comfortable saying "I did my best, at the time"... It's a starting point.

Basically, I guess it's just "time" to actually show proof of life, that I'm actually making an effort to engrave, and not just buying expensive tools.

 

[speeedy6]

Mike,
Don't beat yourself up before the first reply. I see some good in there. There is a " collector " knife for sale in a current gun magazine. Looks like a cheap copy of a Buck 110. The so called engraving on it looks like a withered up tomato vine. Your engraving looks so much better.
I like that material, it has a nice look to it. Does the clip have the springiness a moneyclip needs ? Oh and , I think the engraved piece would look better holding a $50 or $100 bill, really.
Sincerely, Mark

 

[Mike_Morgan]

Mike,
Don't beat yourself up before the first reply. I see some good in there. There is a " collector " knife for sale in a current gun magazine. Looks like a cheap copy of a Buck 110. The so called engraving on it looks like a withered up tomato vine. Your engraving looks so much better.
I like that material, it has a nice look to it. Does the clip have the springiness a moneyclip needs ? Oh and , I think the engraved piece would look better holding a $50 or $100 bill, really.
Sincerely, Mark

Thanks for the comments... I guess I don't see it as beating myself up, though... I Think it's important for me to be honest with myself about what I see! The material is very springy, and I completely agree that a 100 dollar bill would class it up a bit!

I'm generally proud of the fact that I made it; The milestone here, is that it actually exists and that I made it! The Material is a piece of full-hard Phosphor bronze that the Knifemaker Mike Lovett gave to me back in February along with some gravers and sharpening stones. It's really what started this entire engraving journey of mine, so its always going to be a special piece for me, no matter how the engraving turned out!

 

[Mike_Morgan]

Here ya go, I classed it up with a $20.. that's as good as I can get... all my money went to Steve Lindsay...

I also stippled a part I missed on the first go-around, and added some blackening for contrast.

 

[Dave London]

Nice first job Mike, keep cutting

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Mike

That's a long time between cuts

Part of your problem is continuity and the length of time between each part you engraved. Part of engraving is getting into a groove or rhythm with your work.

Like anything we learn, making mistakes is all part of the process. Don't worry as you will make plenty more and then some. We all have gone down this very same path.

My best advise is grab some practice plates of mild steel about 2" square or thereabouts..............and have at it as hard as you can. Don't hold back, just go for it.

Divide you time 50/50 between cutting and drawing as one aids the other...........and just accept the fact that to start with there will be a lot of room for improvement. Start with drawing drawing and cutting scrolls, then leaves, then joining them together. Treat each plate as if it was a real job. Prep the plate, make the design as best you can, cut as best you can, study good engravers work and observe why it is good work.

The whole trick about this is..........the more you do it, the better at it you should become.

Observe, study, draw, cut, observe, study, draw, cut, observe, study, draw, cut, observe, study, draw, cut.........do it till you are sick of it. And then do some more.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Mike_Morgan]

Hi Mike

That's a long time between cuts

Part of your problem is continuity and the length of time between each part you engraved. Part of engraving is getting into a groove or rhythm with your work.

Like anything we learn, making mistakes is all part of the process. Don't worry as you will make plenty more and then some. We all have gone down this very same path.

My best advise is grab some practice plates of mild steel about 2" square or thereabouts..............and have at it as hard as you can. Don't hold back, just go for it.

Divide you time 50/50 between cutting and drawing as one aids the other...........and just accept the fact that to start with there will be a lot of room for improvement. Start with drawing drawing and cutting scrolls, then leaves, then joining them together. Treat each plate as if it was a real job. Prep the plate, make the design as best you can, cut as best you can, study good engravers work and observe why it is good work.

The whole trick about this is..........the more you do it, the better at it you should become.

Observe, study, draw, cut, observe, study, draw, cut, observe, study, draw, cut, observe, study, draw, cut.........do it till you are sick of it. And then do some more.

Cheers
Andrew

I appreciate you comments!

One thing I should mention, is that I cut the initial scroll background and was very surprised at how much harder the bronze was, as compared to the copper 2x2 practice plates I had been using for practice, so I put down the money clip and went back to practicing before screwing the whole thing up. It will sound strange, but the actual piece of metal which I used to fabricate the money clip is actually of sentimental value. I know, it's strange.

So there wasn't a long time between cuts, in fact, I cut metal every day... but I didn't cut on THIS piece every day!

In an earlier post I made on this forum, it was suggested that I work on drawing, and I try to draw a little each day, and this has proven to be fruitful... The thread started by Henningson Knives is where things really started to click for me as far as "understanding" scroll design... I could "see" it prior to that, but I just didn't GET it until everybody jumped in and was so helpful. You guys REALLY stepped up and spelled it out for him, and I got it by osmosis. Of course, it was a bit late for my money clip, I had already outlined the leaves, and my Scrolls didn't cover enough real estate to get the job done... but... press on, regardless, right?

When I finally started feeling comfortable with my shading on the practice plates, I tackled the money clip shading and stippling... an inferior structure made shading a bit harder, I think... but I feel good about the fact that I came back to it and finished the job, and I can finally have something that I can carry each day, an actual functional object as opposed to practice plates.

What I had not considered was your suggestion to treat a practice plate as an actual engraving job, start to finish, and I'm going to incorporate that strategy moving forward, and of course, I'll keep on hanging out here and soaking up as much of the MOJO as I possibly can.

Hey, I want to mention this... For an absolute beginner to be able to hang out here and get input from some of the best engravers on the planet is a real privilege. It can also be a little daunting at times. When you guys post pictures of your work, It's so well executed that it's a little surreal! I look at my plates with all their flaws, then I see what you guys do, and sometimes it feels like there isn't a bridge long enough to cover that gap in skill level... I mean, You guys are among the very best... and wow... Just wow...

I have to get back to work drawing... I'm not sick of it yet.

Thanks again for the advice, Andrew.

 

[Omar Haltam]

looks great for a first piece Mike
keep enjoying what you do, and it will become better and better

 

[Jonathans]

I'm just starting out and will be thrilled if I can do that in a few months time!
I like the design alot.

 

[didyoung]

You have been given good advice...best thing you can do is use it.

Toward the middle of July I taught a drawing and engraving class....it was a success.
I asked who in the class had actually read and followed the instructions in my Drawing book....a few hands where raised.
I had the entire class follow along with me while I drew the scroll pattern on the white board.

I noticed that most of the students wanted to go off and draw their own leaf structures even though they could not draw the simple pattern that was in their books and on the white board..
After getting everyone together and drawing the same pattern..... the class was then starting understand how to construct a good leaf element.
(A PERSON REALLY NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE WHAT IS A CORRECT SCROLL BACKBONE AND A PLEASING LEAF ELEMENT.)
this is done by finding a correct example to study(training your eye and brain to recognize correct leaf structures)....practice drawing it (lots of practice)(practice drawing it and at some point in time the light bulb will come on and you will gain a greater understanding about how you can construct any leaf element that you desire.)

I believe that once you understand how to draw a good correct element...then you can jump in and start cutting it.
We transferred the pattern (the same one that is in the book).
I had the students watch as myself and another instructor cut the pattern.

After cutting the pattern with brief description of what I was doing i could see that the class knew and understood the scroll pattern...plus they knew how to shade it.(this is very important) no grey areas about structure or how to shade the leaf.
Everyone in the class was able to cut and shade the scroll pattern...all the engraved plates looked great.

The best advice I can give is for you to find a simple pattern to draw... practice it until you can draw it exactly( if you have to trace it then trace it...there is no shame in tracing). Understand and know how the leaf structures must be drawn.... practice shading it with the pencil.
Once you can draw it correctly then you can engrave it.

Doing this will increase you learning speed and greatly improve your knowledge of scrolls.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi mike

Don't worry, you're in good company.

Just remember that all of us started out knowing nothing and butchering metal as absolute beginners. So we all started out in exactly the same position as you.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[monk]

mike: bashing yourself is not a learning thing. making mistakes is how one learns. i have a copy of didyoungs' book on designing scroll. it is a good book, an easy read, and is good instruction. he is also dead right; you need a proper design concept from which to learn. 2 of the books i have, including shawns', show that beautiful work can be done with just 3 or 4 very simple elements. the beauty arises from the proper placement of the simple basic cuts.

 

[Mike_Morgan]

mike: bashing yourself is not a learning thing. making mistakes is how one learns. i have a copy of didyoungs' book on designing scroll. it is a good book, an easy read, and is good instruction. he is also dead right; you need a proper design concept from which to learn. 2 of the books i have, including shawns', show that beautiful work can be done with just 3 or 4 very simple elements. the beauty arises from the proper placement of the simple basic cuts.

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.

Shawns book and casting are on my radar for purchase in the next week... Though I hope you're not confusing my effacing sense of humor for me "actually" bashing myself! I've never learned ANYTHING by being good at something from the start.

A friend of mine has a son that at the age of 9 or 10 was showing great promise at being a drummer, and he was quite remarkable... for his age... but everybody kept telling the young man how amazing he was, and he stopped practicing. By the time he was in high-school the drummers in his area who had continued practicing had all caught up with his skills... By graduation day they were all better than him. He still had the same skills he demonstrated at 10 years old, but it was no longer amazing, because he was no longer 10.

The moral of the story, of course, is that I believe one of the worst things a person can do when trying to master a skill, is to believe you're so good that you don't have to get any better. I think it's important to be honest about where I stand, and that by actually being BAD at something, and daring to do it anyway, I have the opportunity to grow.

And you're right, bashing myself isn't how I learn, But not recognizing the mistakes would be equally bad... The only way to learn from my mistakes is to admit that I made them and work toward not making them again. In general, I think I did pretty well on the money clip, having only engraved with self-study for a couple of months, but I feel that to NOT see (and acknowledge) where I made mistakes in both design and cutting, then the entire exercise would have been wasted.

 

[Dani Girl]

No ridicule required. For a first real engraving that's just fine. Overall effect is pleasing and I think you have the basic idea. Keep practicing, keep having fun

 

[snake1408]

Great Job.

You say you have only been engraving a little while, well judging by this effort you are quite an artisan in my book.:clapping:

 

[Mike_Morgan]

No ridicule required. For a first real engraving that's just fine. Overall effect is pleasing and I think you have the basic idea. Keep practicing, keep having fun

You say you have only been engraving a little while, well judging by this effort you are quite an artisan in my book.:clapping:

Thank you for the comments!

 

[bswezey]

Mike...

Being a fellow newbie I appreciate seeing your first project. Having only worked on practice plates myself (and not all that many of those due to lack of equipment) I can understand the excitement and enjoyment you felt at just working on an actual project. As you said it is special to you and you will always love it so that's the main thing. And you can always keep it as a reference point to show you just how much better you are getting every day, month, year. Kudos also on being brave enough to post it!

 

[Mike_Morgan]

Kudos also on being brave enough to post it!

Honestly, that was the hardest part... I see so many amazing posts with photos on this forum and it can be a little intimidating! I decided to just go for it, and critique myself in the process... it dulls the pain of hearing it from others.

Next time I'll just brace myself and spare everybody from having to read through my angst.