Poorly designed scrolls

DakotaDocMartin

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Here's an example of professionally designed scrolls that don't follow the rules and are poorly done. You would figure a large Swiss company such as SIGG would have hired someone who was good at scroll design.:shock:

They must not have heard of Sam. :confused:


 

Marrinan

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Doc, I would say that what you have here is more tribal rather than gun style or western. A valid art for in its own right I think. Not evryone follows the rules of gun engraving. Fred
 

Sam

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This is an interesting topic, Doc. Fred is right in that scrolls on products often don't follow the rules of hand engravers' scrollwork. Here are some examples of what look fine on what they're on, but would fail for engraving.





 

billrice@charter.net

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My 2 cents Sam is that these pictures give me a head ache. The Scroll Designs that Engravers use are taken from nature and feel pleasing to the eye. I am sure that to some people these designs are attactive, though I wonder if you took those patterns and let a hand engraver design the pattern which one would they chose

I am Back from being sick for the past 2 months, good to see you guys on the forum again and I am starting to feeling creative again
 

Sam

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I was wondering where you'd been, Bill. Glad to see you back.

I know what you're saying, and I'm definitely a scroll snob :cool: myself. However, engraving style scrolls don't look good on everything. It took me awhile to realize and accept this, but it's a fact. There are many applications where whimsical scrolls and those that don't follow golden mean perfection work perfectly well. It doesn't mean I alway like 'em, as in the example Doc posted above. I simply don't like the look of that, but I'll bet consumers love it.

I've done a few non-engraving style scrolls for licensing on products as in this example. This particular venture into crappy scroll territory ended up on millions of Jonas Brothers merchandise around the globe. If I were to engrave this design I'd get kicked out of my own forum, but apparently some designer thought it was the perfect design for lunch boxes, bed spread, note books, and everything else this boy band sells.



Here's the scroll itself.

 

mitch

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actually, we're thinking of kicking you out anyway- for having anything to do with promoting the Jonas Bros...
 

Andrew Biggs

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Yes, there's a big difference between graphic design and engraving design. They are two separate things requiring different approaches. And even those disciplines can be broken down into several sub sections.

If you showed a 16 year old kid a beautiful Sam Alfano designed scroll they would roll their eyes and go "whatever".............show them a psychedelic piece of road kill and they think it's wonderful.....just like we did back in the day.

If everything looked the same then it would be a boring old world indeed. Besides, we have to see the bad to understand what the good really looks like. :)

Cheers
Andrew

OK ,OK, old fart question.............what, or who, are the Jonas Brothers???
 
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Ray Cover

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That brings up another point.

Some designers just suck at their job. I know taste are subjective and what looks good to one may not look good to another. But the fact still remains there are some designers out there who can't... well.... design.

Bills comment about the headache hit home with me. That is exactly what I thought when I saw the Disney theme on the bow of that boat. That literally causes me agnst to look at. I know it is supposed to stylistically represent waves rather than floral scroll. However, I feel it could have been thought out a LOT better as to the flow of the design from one character to the other. The color choices bother me as well.

I guess part of what bothers me is that a professional designer should have a good sense of what is and isn't aesthetically pleasing in general. A lot of the anatomy rules we have in gun scroll are there because of aesthetic reasons. A pro designer should be able to look at a poorly designed scroll and say, "something doesn't look right" even if he doesn't have enough formal knowledge of scroll anatomy to instantly pinpoint the problem.

But I too tend to be a "scroll snob" so take it for what its worth.

Ray
 

Red Green

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Hello,

It's commercial art, not art. High profile designs must not attract lawsuits, no artist would claim theft of any of those designs. The firms that sold the work, all the attorneys and the owners are happy. They look like a scroll, sort of.

Bob
 
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rod

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Talking of poorly designed scrolls,

Anyone been looking back at earlier work and getting somewhat embarrassed at scroll backbones with elbows and wrong shapes, and wishing we had spent more time with a pencil first?

Well, I am not very proficient in Adobe Illustrator, but it takes only a few moments to generate some useful transparency sheets with lots of scrolls to have by your side as a quick check on those preliminary sketches. Took about five minutes to crank these out and print on a laserjet on that newer Pic... what's it name Epson-substitute clear sheets. Flip them over to get opposite direction. Lay them over your big preliminary sketches, and poor backbone scrolls will stand out like a sore thumb. They do not have to fit your designs exactly to let you see if you are on the right track.

Rod
 

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Marrinan

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Ninety-nine point nine percent of what we see and do in the gun, knife and silver engraving is very similar scroll. I personally am excited to see those who dare to reach for new directions in their work. Ray Cover's Koi knife or Jim Kelso's remarkable work. The gold scroll work of Ron Knott had the flavor of Sam's non-engraving design work for the Jonas boys. The recent example posted by Jim Kelso from Japan had the start of the artist's culture but also included the very traditional scroll as well.

The consumer expects to see the scroll of the past on guns and knives of the present so that is what most of us focus on. I enjoy seeing Otto Carter's work for his use of non scroll themes on some pieces. His skull Derringers is a good example. When I look at non scrolled work I pay more attention to things like balance and theme and flow etc. to see how the artist makes or misses in carrying off the project.

Scroll is timeless-that is true. Look at the gun work of a hundred years ago and it is pretty much the same as what is being designed today. A little more Art Nevo or Art Deco or non wild life themes are great. I think that the work coming from several benches in Italy and some remarkable artist here in the USA will be remembered for their impact on the art form. For the innovations they are creating. VIVA DIFFERENCES-Fred
 

ETHELBERT

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Actually if you look at that boat it is not scrolls that the artist is trying to rendor, rather it looks to me like water, waves and such. The dog is on a surf board, a kid is on an innertube and a couple of folks in a boat. I don't think that the artist had scroll work in mind at all, albeit it can be interpreted as such at 1st glance. Sonny and Cher said it best....and the beat goes on...
 

Sam

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Actually if you look at that boat it is not scrolls that the artist is trying to rendor, rather it looks to me like water, waves and such. The dog is on a surf board, a kid is on an innertube and a couple of folks in a boat. I don't think that the artist had scroll work in mind at all, albeit it can be interpreted as such at 1st glance. Sonny and Cher said it best....and the beat goes on...

Yes, it's supposed to be stylized water with Disney characters riding the waves in boats.
 

mitch

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Andrew, I assume they are talking about the taxidermy folks I think from the Denver area.

exactly! growing up in Denver, Jonas Bros were world famous taxidermists and also had a successful furrier biz. then a few years ago another of those typical 'boy bands' came on the scene with the same name. their cutesy androgynous looks naturally lead to some humorously uncharitable remarks among my hunting buddies (that should probably not be repeated here...)
 

Sam

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I'd heard the name but didn't know who they were. I just stumbled on my scrollwork on Jonas Bros merchandise in our local Target store.
 

eastslope

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I think if it looks cool, fits the piece, and is pleasing to the eye than it's a winner in my opinion. However my opinion is only worth what it cost you and that's nothing.
 

Andrew Biggs

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I've just Googled the Jonas Bros boy band on the internet.......................tragic!!!!!

Whatever happened to the real boy bands like the Sex Pistols. Pump the stereo up so it was one decibel below blowing the windows out and splitting the eardrums........and then gob away!!!.

Now that was a band that looked like they had visited Jonas Bros. the taxidermists in Denver !! :)

Cheers
Andrew
 

Sam

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I've never heard them, and I'm guilty of judging a book by its cover. When I saw them I pretty much knew it wasn't for me. I didn't see a single banjo in their band! :shock:
 

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