Square graver face angle question

[drmgcm]

Okay i've been playing around with 45 face 15 heel, 50 & 15, and finally 60 & 15 for weeks now, originally i like the feel of the 45/15 but now i'm getting to like the feel of the 60/15 much better. I Think this is because i don't have to lift my wrist up as much with the 60 but i do with the 45, now i'm just curious if this is a common thing that happens when your learning, and if it's acceptable to be using a square graver with a 60/15 combination.

I'm only practising straight line and round cuts at the moment, but it sure feels nicer.

Any feed back here would be nice.

Thanks

Danny

 

[KSnyder]

Danny,
from what I know about the angles "steeper" face angles, 55 & up I would say are mostly used for harder materials such as tough stainless or other hard materials.
I don't think it matters all that much for general cutting (face angle) the heel is probably more important, shorter heel for tight radius or a little longer for straight lines or gentle curves.
Technically the face & heel cant exceed 90 degs. or it wont cut.
Kent

 

[SamW]

Danny, my cutting is almost all gun parts (hard steel). For me, a 65 degree face (approximate) and about a 7 degree heel works for the low angle I hold the tool. What ever works out the most comfortable for you is what you should use. Kent's comments are correct also. Regards...S

 

[FANCYGUN]

Danny
The heel angle is what determines the lift of your handle. The face angle in combination with the heel would determine the durability of the point. I usually use a 15 degree heel on my "V" shaped tools and I usually like a higher angle for my flats so I can control my bevel cuts a little better. I do not like a face angle greater than 55 degrees because i rhen have trouble seeing the tip when I go that blunt. I mostly use a 55/15 combination and this is usually what I start my students out with. Then I tell them to experiment a bit and see what works best for them.

 

[drmgcm]

Thanks guys for all the replies and taking the time to explain a few things, it has opened my mind a little more on face and heel angles.

Thanks for sharing

Regards

Danny.

 

[Sam]

... What ever works out the most comfortable for you is what you should use.

This is good advice from Sam Welch. There are no right or wrong angles (within reason). Experiment with different combinations of heel and face and eventually you'll hit the sweet spot of what works best for you. I'm a 45/15 guy for my V gravers and flats, and 40° face for script lettering flat gravers.

I should try some of the steeper faces that Marty and Sam speak of, especially for students. Steeper faces can make the cutting a little less aggressive, which could be beneficial to students.

 

[Joe Mason]

I like using a 50/20 graver. It just feels good to me. Cuts 416 very well, but on nickel silver and silver it wants to row up or plow a little. Then I reduce it to a 45/15 and that helps. I like the 20 degree heal because it helps from nicking things behind the graver. Keep playing with the angles.

Joe

 

[drmgcm]

Tks Sam, Joe and everyone else, it certainly seems from all the comments here that it's definitely not an exact science when it comes to angles on gravers.

Lots more experimenting to be done, and I get my dual angle fixture GRS sharpener next week, so that will help me a great deal to get more accurate and consistent angles on my gravers.

Tks guys

Danny

 

[Randy MacInnes]

Ok I have a question and a problem with my sq graver. I'm useing the GRS sharpener and the dual angle fiture the tool post setting is 45/0 for the face. I then set for the heel at 15 on the post then 45 to the right and again to the left. Now for the problem when I look at the heel to check for the heel the heel shows up at the top of the V not at the bottom where the heel should be, both sides!. This only happens to the sq graver don't know where I went wrong.
Randy

 

[fegarex]

You have to turn the power hone upside down...

Seriously, You almost had it except you are 180 degrees off. You need to go to the "other" zero and then set your 45 degree angles..
I tell my students to do the face, then turn the dial a full 180 to THAT zero, then go to each of the 45s. Or, you can take the tool out and flip it over. Whatever works easier for you.

 

[Randy MacInnes]

Thank for the input Rex I did filp the graver over before I started the heel. It was working so good for me and next you know I get this heel now at the top of the V. Oh with the turning it on you also need to plug the thing in. Ha!!!! By the way this is a real problem for me don't know what to do.
Randy

 

[fegarex]

Unless you are a machinist, the whole face angle/heel angle thing can be a bit confusing at first. After you sharpen a few gravers it will come to you easy. One thing that makes things a bit easier to remember for sharpening is to think of the face angle as the "top" and the heel the "bottom". That way, you will remember to rotate the fixture 180 degrees.

 

[drmgcm]

I must say thanks to Fagarex for that explanation, as i get my GRS system next week, now i won't have any problems hopefully with sharpening.

Tks

Danny

 

[Randy MacInnes]

Ok Rex I'll make sure that I grind 45 face or top then rotate 180 for a 15 heel at 45 right then left. By the way it was nice to meet you at the Shot Show at the GRS booth. GRS has always taken good care of me. I'll let you know if I have anymore problems.
Randy

 

[fegarex]

Glad to help. You'll probably grind a few wrong yet but don't worry. It will come fast once you do a few.
And you wondered why they made you take geometry in school, huh?