The metal inlay dilemma...

[AndrosCreations]

I much appreciated the input on common wire sizes in my previous posted thread. Here is the next thing that I have to chew on and figure out...

When you've designed something and have specified that certain portions of an engraving will be in gold... if you've drawn some layout lines on your work, they could easily become destroyed after stoning and refinishing the piece after the gold/copper/other metal is inlayed.

I wonder how some of you address this issue of having to refinish the surface (which can potentially destroy layout lines) after doing inlay work.

Do you re lay out your lines?

Just to clarify... I don't need suggestions on refinishing the metal... that part is generally pretty simple using stones, sandpaper and the like... my difficulties are in regards to destroying layout lines and how others deal with this.

I would appreciate your thoughts in this regard...

p.s. Here's my first 24k inlay...

 

[Sam]

Good question, Andy. What I do is engrave my entire design but go super light and leave space in areas where the design overlaps or connects to an inlay. I then inlay my gold, stone it off and restore everything to the final finish. THEN I complete the engraving, removing background, shading, etc. The reason I go super light and leave a space is because my inlay will be outlined with a hairline cut in the steel right next to the gold. By leaving a space I can engrave the hairline and then engrave the other elements to connect with it perfectly.

If I'm doing a simple border around a knife bolster I'll most likely inlay that, polish, THEN draw and engrave the scrolls inside. An exception would be if portions of the design overlap the gold border, in which case the entire thing must be laid out and engraved as I described above.

 

[Sam]

Andy: This illustration should make it easier to understand. As you can see, I'm leaving unengraved space between where the inlay goes and where the scroll elements meet and go over/under the gold inlay. Since the gold butts right up to the bottom leaf, I don't need a hairline there so I don't need to stop my lines short. But on the sides of my inlay I always engrave a hairline, so I MUST leave some space for the hairline.

I hope this address part of your question.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I do pretty much the same thing, depending on the final design. Main cuts first, inlay, clean up gold...............then carry on with the rest of it.

But it does depend on the work. I've tried inlaying first and then trying to register everything to the gold and it dosn't always register properley.

Borders all by themselves I'll inlay, stone etc, then lay the design down and cut.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[SamW]

I do much as above. I cut all the design including cavities and add gold last so it does not get damaged while working on other areas. I leave a slight open area around the cavity as Sam does and then work the cuts up to the gold after inlaying.

 

[Donny]

This should go into the tips TAB. Simple yet VERY COOL TIP!!!


Donny

 

[Doc Mark]

Thanks Sam! This tip could not have come at a better time. I am planning on doing my first gold border on a knife bolster this weekend. I knew the basics of laying down the outline, inlay, stone and then detail. But, I didn't think of cutting the outline slightly short of the gold margin. Having done some practice inlay with copper wire, I see where this technique will help keep the design cutting cleaner. Thanks again.

 

[Sam]

You're welcome Gold borders are greatly accentuated with a hairline cut in the steel right next to the gold. I would say that I do this 100% of the time. The only exception might be inlaid gold on a blued gun, but even then I've outlined them. The object is to cut so close that you don't see steel edge with the naked eye.

Looking at Andy's beautiful pendant, I can tell you that the gold border would really stand out with hairline outlines. The difference is quite amazing. The down side is that cutting them requires patience and graver control. If you breach the steel edge and slide into the gold then you've got a mess on your hands. But with reasonable control and a microscope it's very doable. In his early days Lynton McKenzie did them without magnification.

 

[Sam]

Here's a more complete explanation of the process. I've been meaning to make a class handout on this for a long time, so I'm glad this discussion came up.

 

[AndrosCreations]

This is excellent advice... Thank you Sam and the other contributors! The illustrations are perfect... I need to read everything again and try to assimilate the information.

I thought about putting a hair line cut to define the gold inlay in the pendant but didn't want to mess up my first inlay project... Certainly next time it will be time to do it!

For some reason metal inlay is my greatest obstacle thus far in engraving... It seems that most other engravers think it's pretty simple but I've struggled quite a bit with it. I'm hoping it can turn into a strength... We shall see.

Thanks again for showing the way!

 

[mrthe]

Wow Sam your cheme is fantastic thank you!
Don`t worry Andy that you can!

 

[Marrinan]

Contributer to this thread, Thanks for the great advice. Learned a couple of good, useful tips. Fred

 

[Tira]

Thanks for the "handout" illustrations Sam! They are very clear and well done.

Why do you cut the overlapping leaf line in the gold itself, but cut the gold-line lines next to the gold into the steel? Why don't you cut all the lines in the same way (both just in the steel next to the gold (like the lines), or both right into the gold (like on the leaf))? Is it a matter of how it looks or how strong it is so it is not damaged?

 

[BrianPowley]

Tira, I'm thinking the lines won't line up. Cutting the line in the steel ,instead of the gold, would be cutting to the inside of the "out"line of the leaf.

@ Andy...FWIT, many get really bogged down and intimidated with inlay. Mainly because inlay is a proceedure and not really engraving although you are using engraving tools. Think of a dentist filling a cavity. Same thing: It is pretty much a "1-2-3-4" proceedure. Excavate/undercut/fill/finish.

 

[RoycroftRon]

Sam it won't be much longer before you have enough handouts with tips to create a nice book. "Sam Alfano's Bag of Tricks Volume 1"

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Sam]

Thanks for the "handout" illustrations Sam! They are very clear and well done.

Why do you cut the overlapping leaf line in the gold itself, but cut the gold-line lines next to the gold into the steel? Why don't you cut all the lines in the same way (both just in the steel next to the gold (like the lines), or both right into the gold (like on the leaf))? Is it a matter of how it looks or how strong it is so it is not damaged?

Tira: Two reasons: 1.) the gold is butting up agains the overlapping steel scrolls so it's deeply undercut there. Simply trimming the gold out of the cuts is all that's necessary since it's locked tightly in place. 2.) As Brian stated, if you did a hairline then it wouldn't line up correctly, nor would it look good.

 

[Sam]

Sam it won't be much longer before you have enough handouts with tips to create a nice book. "Sam Alfano's Bag of Tricks Volume 1"

Thanks for the tip.

I've got enough already, Roy

 

[Tira]

Sam, I understand the place where the leaf overlaps. The gold is undercut and in no way going to fall out and the line at the edge of the gold/steel follows the original design line. (No question you wouldn't put a line on the steel on the leaf it would look odd). My question is: why not cut the border lines the same way? Why don't you just cut the border at the edge of the gold/steel in the gold (just like at the leaf). Does it just give more contrast in the steel? Does it make the border look more full? Or is there another reason?

 

[Sam]

Oh, ok. Well, you can cut the hairlines in the gold itself, but as you questioned, the fullness of the border will be compromised. Aside from that, when you have to complete the lines as in the last part of the illustration, cutting from steel to join the gold border's hairline (cut in the gold and not the steel) would be really risky. Lastly, if you're doing relief engraving then you must cut the hairlines in the steel as you will need a steel shoulder to keep the gold in. If you cut the hairlines in the gold itself and then try to remove background next to the gold, it's going to be extremely difficult. So hairlines cut in steel 1.) make it much easier to complete the lines as in the illustration, 2.) retain or slightly improve the fullness (width) of the inlay, and 3.) make background removal safer and easier.

 

[Tira]

Thanks! :biggrin: