Question: inlay question
- Thread starter diane b
- Start date
Roger B
Elite Cafe Member
I'm not saying it can't be done but white gold alloys are generally hard - there are easier white metals to inlay. Also bear in mind that white gold is often grey and not white.
Roger
Roger
Eric Olson
Elite Cafe Member
Most would use fine silver or possibly platinum for white inlay.
White gold us quite stiff and might work OK for straight lines but it's not too bendy or workable to press into the inlay areas.
If you're dead set on it you might try Palladium white.
White gold us quite stiff and might work OK for straight lines but it's not too bendy or workable to press into the inlay areas.
If you're dead set on it you might try Palladium white.
Hi Diane,
I avoid inlaying white gold when ever I can.
But if I am forced to inlay white gold sheet I first silver solder a thin layer of 24 K Yellow to the back of it.
I do the same if I am inlaying sheet iron and count on the gold backing to spread into the undercut and give the burs something to bite.
Constructed inlays of multi strands of white gold wire will fully expand your vocabulary, as Mitch said.
And make you wish you had taken up finger painting, not engraving.
I avoid inlaying white gold when ever I can.
But if I am forced to inlay white gold sheet I first silver solder a thin layer of 24 K Yellow to the back of it.
I do the same if I am inlaying sheet iron and count on the gold backing to spread into the undercut and give the burs something to bite.
Constructed inlays of multi strands of white gold wire will fully expand your vocabulary, as Mitch said.
And make you wish you had taken up finger painting, not engraving.
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jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
It is possible to inlay carbide if you know how. I inlay iron often and all colors of gold. Learned it from Sam W and Robert Evans
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Roger B
Elite Cafe Member
Treat the white gold like a cabochon stone that you want to set and use the surrounding metal as a bezel - rather than forcing the white gold into the cavity use the cavity walls to hold the sheet of gold in place.
Roger
Roger
Hello Roger,
Your method will work OK for jewelry, medals, buckles and such.
But I question if it would work for most firearms inlay due to the shock of recoil.
Inlays that fail or that pop out get one a bad name very fast.
And if the parent metal is steel and is to be hot blued you can get leakage under the inlay.
Salts build up under an inlay is a sure disaster and rust spreader.
Gentleman, Thank you for your kind, really informative and amusing (Mitch) answers.
Roger: I suspected that the hardness of the white gold was the reason it is not used as inlay metal. You confirmed that for me.
Mitch: I always thought that blue cloud over the rockies was smog, but now I know who is really responsible for that!
Eric: I’ve only used fine silver when I’ve done inlay. Is the Palladium white gold less hard than the nickel white gold?
John B: What a great idea!!! I never thought of soldering a softer piece of metal onto the back of a harder piece so that the harder piece could be used as inlay with less difficulty. You’ve given me another tool for my tool box.
Jerrywh: The downside of using fine silver and 24K gold is that they scratch so easily as they are so soft. It would be nice to be able to inlay harder materials that don’t scratch as easily – not just in firearms or knives but jewelry as well.
Roger B and John B: I took an intro class to Japanese metalwork from Ford Hallam. His application is to the Tsuba part of the Japanese sword. In the class, we inlayed a ginko leaf much in the way of a bezel set, except the bezel wasn’t soldered onto the base metal, but was carved out of the base metal that was accepting the inly. Someone (I wish I could remember who it was) did a tutorial on this awhile back. They used this technique to inlay a bug – I think it was an ant. The inlay I did with the ginko leaf wasn’t flush with the surface (but more of an overlay) as I don’t think the ant inlay was flush either. But, now I’m wondering if the “bezel” type inlay was done in the manner I described, would the blueing salts still get underneath the inlay and would this inlay withstand the shock of the firearm?
Roger: I suspected that the hardness of the white gold was the reason it is not used as inlay metal. You confirmed that for me.
Mitch: I always thought that blue cloud over the rockies was smog, but now I know who is really responsible for that!
Eric: I’ve only used fine silver when I’ve done inlay. Is the Palladium white gold less hard than the nickel white gold?
John B: What a great idea!!! I never thought of soldering a softer piece of metal onto the back of a harder piece so that the harder piece could be used as inlay with less difficulty. You’ve given me another tool for my tool box.
Jerrywh: The downside of using fine silver and 24K gold is that they scratch so easily as they are so soft. It would be nice to be able to inlay harder materials that don’t scratch as easily – not just in firearms or knives but jewelry as well.
Roger B and John B: I took an intro class to Japanese metalwork from Ford Hallam. His application is to the Tsuba part of the Japanese sword. In the class, we inlayed a ginko leaf much in the way of a bezel set, except the bezel wasn’t soldered onto the base metal, but was carved out of the base metal that was accepting the inly. Someone (I wish I could remember who it was) did a tutorial on this awhile back. They used this technique to inlay a bug – I think it was an ant. The inlay I did with the ginko leaf wasn’t flush with the surface (but more of an overlay) as I don’t think the ant inlay was flush either. But, now I’m wondering if the “bezel” type inlay was done in the manner I described, would the blueing salts still get underneath the inlay and would this inlay withstand the shock of the firearm?
Hi Diane.
Both of us are aware that the Japanese artisans use the raised perimeter/bezel method for beautiful decorations on swords, knives and other items. Bet you enjoyed a great class class.
But most of these items are not subjected to the shock and recoil of a cartridge being fired and are not usually hot dip blued.
I see no problem using the perimeter/bezel method that Roger talked about for other items and cases.
That is as long as the surrounding background can remain with a texture or be stoned to a desirable finish.
Mitch is probably to blame for the Los Angles smog that he let drift West from Denver
Both of us are aware that the Japanese artisans use the raised perimeter/bezel method for beautiful decorations on swords, knives and other items. Bet you enjoyed a great class class.
But most of these items are not subjected to the shock and recoil of a cartridge being fired and are not usually hot dip blued.
I see no problem using the perimeter/bezel method that Roger talked about for other items and cases.
That is as long as the surrounding background can remain with a texture or be stoned to a desirable finish.
Mitch is probably to blame for the Los Angles smog that he let drift West from Denver
jerrywh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Years ago Frank Hendrix made a tape. On the tape he told how to solder gold or pure silver on the back of hard brittle metals so that they may be inlaid. I have that tape and I think it can still be purchased from the FEGA site.
Dave London
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Diane
That would be Tom Sterling ,hope I got the spelling correct
That would be Tom Sterling ,hope I got the spelling correct
The other member who does Japanese style inlay is Jim Kelso http://www.jimkelso.com/tutorialshub.htm
Dean
Elite Cafe Member
Beautiful work Mitch, as is ALL of your work
Jahn Baker
Elite Cafe Member
Diane, Just to answer one of your questions, yes 18K PALLADIUM white gold is much more malleable than the nickel based alloy. I have inlayed it in a few projects without problems. It is a little more grey than fine silver, cost less than pure platinum and IMHO worked almost as well as the platinum.
But you may not know exactly what is in the alloy,every refinery has different % of palladium,silver and copper. One example in link..........
https://www.totalmateria.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=ktn&NM=230
https://www.totalmateria.com/page.aspx?ID=CheckArticle&site=ktn&NM=230
Gentleman, Again I thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
jerrywh: thank for the information on the tape. I will check it out.
Dave: Yes that’s the gentleman’s name! Thank you. I just looked it up and it was a beetle on a hobo nickle.
DanM: I became interested in Japanese metalwork after seeing Jim Kelso’s work on this site. The quiet beauty of his designs is so lovely. Randi Harper in Snohomish (east of Seattle) used to have an art school (actually it was a studio in her walk-out basement) where she hosted some amazing teachers. I think Ray Cover taught there. Anyway, that is where I came across Ford Hallam and jumped at the opportunity to take a class with him.
Mitch: Oh my goodness, thank you for posting these pictures. Just to make sure I understand what you did – You took flat steel stock and cut out the shape of your design. Then you inlayed this steel stock into the steel gun and sculpted the stock to create this beautiful design. Is that right?
Jahn Baker and DanM: Thank you for the information on the palladium. I’ve never really worked with white gold so don’t know that much about it. I appreciate your information.
jerrywh: thank for the information on the tape. I will check it out.
Dave: Yes that’s the gentleman’s name! Thank you. I just looked it up and it was a beetle on a hobo nickle.
DanM: I became interested in Japanese metalwork after seeing Jim Kelso’s work on this site. The quiet beauty of his designs is so lovely. Randi Harper in Snohomish (east of Seattle) used to have an art school (actually it was a studio in her walk-out basement) where she hosted some amazing teachers. I think Ray Cover taught there. Anyway, that is where I came across Ford Hallam and jumped at the opportunity to take a class with him.
Mitch: Oh my goodness, thank you for posting these pictures. Just to make sure I understand what you did – You took flat steel stock and cut out the shape of your design. Then you inlayed this steel stock into the steel gun and sculpted the stock to create this beautiful design. Is that right?
Jahn Baker and DanM: Thank you for the information on the palladium. I’ve never really worked with white gold so don’t know that much about it. I appreciate your information.
dlilazteca
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Brother, your just a treasure of information! Glad your here, id like to take a class from you, some advanved multi color inaly would be great, thanks again John!Hi Diane,
I avoid inlaying white gold when ever I can.
But if I am forced to inlay white gold sheet I first silver solder a thin layer of 24 K Yellow to the back of it.
I do the same if I am inlaying sheet iron and count on the gold backing to spread into the undercut and give the burs something to bite.
Constructed inlays of multi strands of white gold wire will fully expand your vocabulary, as Mitch said.
And make you wish you had taken up finger painting, not engraving.
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