Customer relations, then and now

[pilkguns]

thinking back to the thread Brian Hochstrat started a few weeks ago about customers and backlogs, I thought this story was enlightening. This comes from the autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini, a noted engraver and goldsmith of the Rennasaince who died in 1571. Next time I am in Florence I will have to try to see some his work first hand.

But anyway, here is a passage on customer relations that apparently is timeless.

So I worked very diligently to finish the vase I had begun for the Bishop of Salmanca. He was a marvelous sort of man, very rich, buy very hard to please. Every day he used to send someone along to find out what I was up to, and on one occasion, when his messenger found me not in, the Bishop lost his temper and swore that her would take the work away from me and give it to someone else to finish. This was all because of my giving my time to (playing) that damned music.

All the same, I worked at the vase very diligently, day and night, till it reached the stage where I could show it to him. As a result the Bishop grew so impatient to have it finished that I regretted having let him see it. At the end of three months it was done. It was adorned with a wonderful variety of pretty little animals, and leaves, and masks.

I took the vase along to Salamanca and he decided to have it valued. Lucagnolo (his former boss) took part in the valuation, and he put a higher price on it and praised it far more than I would have done. Then Salamanca took hold of the vase and like a typical Spaniard said: 'I swear to God that I'll take as long to pay him as he took (in) making it.'

When I heard this I found myself in a very nasty frame of mind, cursing all Spain and anyone who stood up for the country.

 

[ED DELORGE]

Hello Scott, It is good to hear from you again. That was such a great story and so many lessons to be learned from it. Especially the part about not letting the customer see the work before it is finished.

Thanks for sharing.

Ed Delorge

 

[Ray Cover]

Scott,

You don't know how much that blessed my day.

Was that an actual quote or was that a paraphrase? Anyway, do you mind if I have a copy of that?

I wouldn't mind using it someday.

Ray

 

[Weldon47]

That explains why I like payment BEFORE something leaves the shop!!

Weldon

 

[Gargoyle]

This was all because of my giving my time to (playing) that damned music.

Let this be a warning to Sam and any other musicians out there.

Anyway, do you mind if I have a copy of that?

The book, the autobiography of Benvenuto Cellini, is very easy to find. Any decent library or bookstore should have it on hand, or be able to get it within a couple of days.

You can also download it from the Gutenburg Project site. The quote comes from chapter XXIV... the story gets better. Here's the next paragraph, which should cause you to want to d/l the whole book and read the rest:

Amongst other beautiful ornaments, this vase had a handle, made all of one piece, with most delicate mechanism, which, when a spring was touched, stood upright above the mouth of it. While the prelate was one day ostentatiously exhibiting my vase to certain Spanish gentlemen of his suite, it chanced that one of them, upon Monsignor’s quitting the room, began roughly to work the handle, and as the gentle spring which moved it could not bear his loutish violence, it broke in his hand. Aware what mischief he had done, he begged the butler who had charge of the Bishop’s plate to take it to the master who had made it, for him to mend, and promised to pay what price he asked, provided it was set to rights at once. So the vase came once more into my hands, and I promised to put it forthwith in order, which indeed I did. It was brought to me before dinner; and at twenty-two o’clock the man who brought it returned, all in a sweat, for he had run the whole way, Monsignor having again asked for it to show to certain other gentlemen. [1] The butler, then, without giving me time to utter a word, cried: “Quick, quick, bring the vase.†I, who wanted to act at leisure and not to give up to him, said that I did not mean to be so quick. The serving-man got into such a rage that he made as though he would put one hand to his sword, while with the other he threatened to break the shop open. To this I put a stop at once with my own weapon, using therewith spirited language, and saying: “I am not going to give it to you! Go and tell Monsignor, your master, that I want the money for my work before I let it leave this shop.†When the fellow saw he could not obtain it by swaggering, he fell to praying me, as one prays to the Cross, declaring that if I would only give it up, he would take care I should be paid. These words did not make me swerve from my purpose; but I kept on saying the same thing. At last, despairing of success, he swore to come with Spaniards enough to cut me in pieces. Then he took to his heels; while I, who inclined to believe partly in their murderous attack, resolved that I would defend myself with courage. So I got an admirable little gun ready, which I used for shooting game, and muttered to myself: “He who robs me of my property and labour may take my life too, and welcome.†While I was carrying on this debate in my own mind, a crowd of Spaniards arrived, led by their major-domo, who, with the headstrong rashness of his race, bade them go in and take the vase and give me a good beating. Hearing these words, I showed them the muzzle of my gun, and prepared to fire, and cried in a loud voice: “Renegade Jews, traitors, is it thus that one breaks into houses and shops in our city of Rome? Come as many of you thieves as like, an inch nearer to this wicket, and I’ll blow all their brains out with my gun.†Then I turned the muzzle toward their major-domo, and making as though I would discharge it, called out: “And you big thief, who are egging them on, I mean to kill you first.†He clapped spurs to the jennet he was riding, and took flight headlong. The commotion we were making stirred up all the neighbours, who came crowding round, together with some Roman gentlemen who chanced to pass, and cried: “Do but kill the renegades, and we will stand by you.†These words had the effect of frightening the Spaniards in good earnest. They withdrew, and were compelled by the circumstances to relate the whole affair to Monsignor. Being a man of inordinate haughtiness, he rated the members of his household, both because they had engaged in such an act of violence, and also because, having begun, they had not gone through with it. At this juncture the painter, who had been concerned in the whole matter, came in, and the Bishop bade him go and tell me that if I did not bring the vase at once, he would make mincemeat of me; [2] but if I brought it, he would pay its price down. These threats were so far from terrifying me, that I sent him word I was going immediately to lay my case before the Pope.

 

[Ray Cover]

beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ray

 

[Weldon47]

Well.......haven't had to do that yet!

Weldon

 

[pilkguns]

Ray, you have to know the last line about the Pope was preceded earlier in the book by the Pope trying to hire him as the private goldsmith for the Vatican but he had told the Pope he could'n take the job until he finished the job on the vase he was doing for this Spanish Bishop.

 

[jimzim75]

Hi All,
I been doing this ring for about six weeks now. The original job was to
make a channel ring for the customer twist ring that they had made in a
class. The customer wanted to see a wax. The customer is an
engineer. Engineers can be sometime quite fussy. They get out
the digital calipers. Anyway, I made a half spool ring and slid the
customer ring on it. Then I made the other rim. Presto, a channel ring.
The ring wasn't the right size at this point. I did this at no charge.
It didn't take that much time.

The ring came back with a laundry list of corrections. So I did another
wax but of a different color. To prove it wasn't the same wax.
This time I charge $50.00 wax fee.

Next time I visit the jeweller he has the ring and another laundry list.
I told him I would be happy to do another wax for another $50.00
Dollars. I would be happy to do as many as the customer could
afford. I also told him all the customer really wanted know is if
I could do the Job. Especially since the ring was to be made three
sizes larger that the original wax. The first two waxes couldn't even
be used for the final product. A new wax would have to be made.

I finally got the go ahead, but and there is always a but.
I had to finish the ring in three days.
Customer will drive you crazy unless you take control of the process.

Jim

 

[Ray Cover]

Customer will drive you crazy unless you take control of the process.

Jim

Ya know Jim it is a shame but that is very true. In the past I have let myself become friends with customers and then it gets even worse.

Of course, not every customer that we have is like that. I do have very good customers and I have thinned the ranks of those that are as described above. I think there are two things (probably more) that come into play in the equation.

1st Is that too often the customer has no idea what a realistic expectation is or he thinks we are starving and need him so much he can make unrealistic demands and we will jump through hoops to please him.

2nd Is that we often let ourselves get to close to our customers and we start doing extra favors for them because we like them. From that point they cannot understand that because you shot yourself in the foot on one job that you can't afford to do it on every one from that point on. It turns into that thing your dad warned you about when you were a kid. You know, that old, "Never work for family or friends" thing.

Of course that does not always hold true. David Broadwell and I have been friends for many many years and the two of us work very well together on collaboration projects and we work well doing personal jobs for each other. But for that to work the friendship and the respect has to be a two way street. Unfortunately, it rarely is in business dealings.

How many times have you heard something related to," Hey I know him fairly well let me see if I can get you a better price on such and such"? Where as if the guy were really your friend he would say something more like,"Hey I know that guy and he has bills to pay and kids to feed just like everybody else and he has to work for his money just like we do."

Ray

 

[Ray Cover]

As soon as I am finished with Joseph's book I have to get a copy of that. IT sounds like way too good of a read to pass up.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention Scott.

 

[jimzim75]

Hi Ray,

I have had all three thing you talk about happen in my business. Most of the engravers on
the forum work one on one with customers. I assume that's what you do also in your
own business. I also have a private cliental. Very little of what I make comes from this,
since Zurich only has some 950 people. Plus I don't encourage local business.
If I get it, its' nice sorta like free money.

95% of what I make is from other jewellers. So I have to train them to represent me in
their stores. That also means sticking up for me, and defending me form crazy customers
once in a while. I teach the store owner a lot about engraving and jewellery.
So they can make themselves look good and write a coherent order. Where they get in
trouble with me is they want me to do to many services for no charge. I try to be
reasonable with them. If they start having me do a lot of re-does or waxes. There's
something wrong. They're not doing the sale correctly and getting enough information.
So I do things like wax fees, or redesign fees. Which hopefully clues them in to be
more attentive when they're writing the order. This comes out of their pocket.
I have only had to drop one company
because they simply would try. They had bad habits before I started working with them
and simple didn't want to change. So I wished them well and stopped coming by.
I had two more companies by the end of the week.

50% of the time letting a customer see a job half done can be a kiss of death.
Customers simple can't see what the ring is going to look like. There of course are
those that can. But it seem they are the rare ones. During an engraving this might mean
they would like you to do a 180 turn. This wouldn't make me happy and I would say you
wouldn't like it either. That's when it pays to have someone defending you in the
office. A secretary, a partner, or a wife. "You can't see Jim today, he has the flew".
Gotta love that wife.

Jim

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

One thing I have used in my business that I learned in my humble beginnings as a professional horseshoer, was to rank my clients. I judge them on every aspect that effects me the better the ranking the easier I am to deal with. I use it in my saddlery business and now have found myself using it in my engraving business as well.

If people who are looking for a bargain, or disrespectful, shifty or simply annoy me, I suddenly become very busy, very expensive and unfriendly, that usually sends them on their way. I try to be honest and fair and I expect my customers to be the same. If a person wants nice work and don't mind the wait or cost they are the customers that will stick with you. The other kind will take your work show little appreciation for it and you'll never hear from them again, eccept for maybe a negative comment they made to someone that makes it back to you.

Ray I can see why you get along well with David Broadwell, I found him to be very good to deal with and he certainly respects the time and care it takes to do good work.

 

[Gargoyle]

This sign is taped to the window of a friends marble shop in Italy. Roughly translated it says:
If you pay how you want, I work how I want.
If you pay how I want, I work how you want.

(if you set the payment terms, I set the work terms. If you set the work terms, I set the payment terms).

 

[jimzim75]

I love it! By the way, how did you get to be The Official Cafe Stone Carver?
After a while do you become the Elite Official Cafe Stone Carver?

 

[vilts]

Elite Moderator-Administrator Official Cafe Stone Carver.

Sorry, couldn't resist...