Germanic style buckle

[steichman]

Thought i would post these pic of a quick buckle i am finishing. I wanted that "clasic style" quick chisled look, but i wanted it to be easily viewed from several feet away. my question to this forum is what would thing is the best way to get the most "value contrast" so the deer stand out. as is is these are in slight releif.
most of the work is done with a liner. (some of the older works appear to done this way?). The design is not original so please guy's don't have a fit, this is just for fun. the scrol work is Ron's transition style. Outside the circle of gold the finish is Van's gun blue just to see if this worked. love to hear comments,,

Steve

 

[Ron Smith]

Well, I was wondering how long it would be before I saw someone using this style. You did good!! The only thing you need is more lines in the scene to create intensity and detail. Play around with pen and ink and learn how to crosshatch and such for intensity or look at some line pen and ink drawings. Of course you can do it with a pencil, but If you copied an original design, you might not have any intensity in it, but if you work from real life photos of game, you can start working with varying tones and creating them with lines or dots. The buckle as it is and the subject matter is okay, but try reproducing animals from real life examples. this will teach you how to produce the tones that you see in ranges from white, through the grays, to black.

There is a bit of confusion in the placement of the animals legs. Which one is in the foreground where the back legs are concerned.

Other than that it is not bad, but working with lines is really working with textures. Lots of lines create rough textures and contrast. The more delicate the lines, the more of them you need to create dark tones.

Hope this helps........Ron S

 

[John B.]

Hi Steve, good to see your post.
There are lots to like in your depiction of an old time engraving scene, as Ron said.
Great old style scrollwork.
The second deer from the left (doe) should have it's nearside leg shown over (this side of) the back leg of the buck unless it is meant to be running into his butt, I think.
The way the front of this does neck is shown over the rear of the buck should mean that it is closer to the viewer.
Maybe the original artwork had this same mistake and you just copied it.?
Probably not your mistake, because as a horseman yourself, I'm sure you know where animals legs should be.
The only other thing that you might add is a little shade under the nicely cut grass at the bottom right corner.
Are you still shoeing Grand Prix horses all over the world or are you staying closer to home?
It was good seeing you at the GMP last year.
Best regard, John B.

 

[Martin Strolz]

This is not a job I am proud of, but I thought you like to see how it looks, if you add more of everything. Background shading done with a liner too.

 

[steichman]

thanks so much Ron, john and Martin
Starting with Ron Can't thank you enough for turning me on to this "transition cut" I love it and have used it on many projects. Curently i am doing my first handgun with this style. I will let you know how it comes out. all the tips you have given me will help finish up this buckle. the legs and the background as you have noted are not complete. this was to be a quick project nothing to get to crazy with.
Do you guy's feel that the idea of blueing outside the gold circle is going to work? That was actualy my main concern.
John, the legs I can sort out they do need work, (as for running up the other bucks rear, maby I have been around to many horse people) more detail yes. Question will I lose the effect for the viewer if I add more detail as this is to be seen from a distance, say three feet? Also John this is an Olympic year and I will be in England and Hong kong the later half of the summer fixing horse feet. this winter we have spent half the time in florida and half back in pennsylvania.
Martin, that engraving is fantastic, you spent a heck of a lot more time on that gun then i put into this buckle
it makes it hard to know when to quit.

Thanks again to all your input is invaluable!
Steve

 

[monk]

very unusual, to say the least. it's also very nice

 

[Ron Smith]

Steve, step a few feet away and look at Martin's example. Does it show up well? This is the answer to your question. You can make any subject stand out with the use of lines, but like you lamented, it takes much more time, but that is an attitude you develope as your skills (and income) increase. Even when you can see it in your potential and practicality, according to the price you can get for your work it is usually going to cost you. The mental adjustments you will make along the way are relative to these things, and just as important. Knowing when to quit is relative to that. You have to be willing to sacrifice to do the masterpieces, and then making a decent wage for it is still pretty scarce..........Do what you can now, learn, practice, and do your masterpieces in your fun times........That is a process that never ends in this business.........Ron S

 

[Martin Strolz]

Thank you Ron.
Steve, see more examples for this style here, tips archive, my tutorial on shading. http://www.igraver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574
Mr. Singer was very fast in this style, because he did loads of it early in his career. And he achieved very nice results!
You can download the picture of the print, invert it in Photoshop and print it. This way you get an impression of the look of the engraving.
Why not copy the stag for practice? You only need a square graver and a liner-chisel .
Such a scene can be finished in little more than a day..
Martin

 

[John B.]

Steve.
My friends Ron and Martin have given you valuable advise.
I think that if you want to blue outside the circle and French Gray inside it will read reasonably well from a distance but the details of the lightly cut game scene will be hard to see at more than arms length.
The example that Martin posted with the black background behind the stag would read pretty well from across the room.
Just my opinion and some food for thought.
You are on the right track with the shading just below the deer, so far.
More of it, some trees above the deer and shading around the clouds and foreground rocks and grass and it would jump right out.
From where you are with it right now that should not be more than 2-3 hours more work.
And well worth it if only for your personal satisfaction.
Especially if you are looking for a "strong read."
I hope you have fun looking after the event horses feet and legs this year in the masterful way they rely on you to do.
This engraving stuff is kinda the same as the horse thing.
Just plan out what needs to be done and be willing to spend the time to do the job to the best of your ability.

My very best regards to you, a Master of the horse world. Enjoy your travels.

John B.

 

[steichman]

Thanks guy's don't know what i would do with out all the help. Matrin if you don't mind I will give that stag a try. I was to fearfull to remove above the deer in my seen as i was afraid they would get lost, and yes john i am looking for a strong read. To bad I can't cut metal like i can knock around a horseshoe!

Steve

 

[John B.]

Hey Steve.
That will come with a little time.
You have all the ability and skills to keep at it and make it work.

Best, John B.

 

[steichman]

Martin
I am haveing some difficulity understanding just what you are asking.I am fairly handy with a push graver, though it looks as if it is cutting upsidedown? i am missing something. I like your style anybody else on line who may understand this method of shadeing chim in

Thanks
Steve

 

[Martin Strolz]

Steve,
I have tried to explain the square graver already here: We grind long heel facets making the tool look upside down for you. http://www.igraver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2116
Martin

 

[steichman]

thanks Martin
In the photo it does only apperar to upside down. Your heel looks like how i prep my graver on the top side. Sorry to be a bother

Thanks
steve