Question: Grizzly Lathes?

[Damien Connolly]

In the throes of setting up a whole new workshop here. If anyone has experience of the Grizzly 14x40 "Gunsmiths Lathe" and their 9x19 Bench lathe, I'd appreciate their comments.

I've driven nearly2500 miles over the last two weeks looking at and buying machinery, and while I'm definitely prepared to drive into Pennsylvania from Vermont to check them out, it'd be nice to have an opinion or two.

I'l be getting in touch with several people who've wished me well in this, but just at the moment, I'm "a little busy".

Thanks everyone........Damien.

 

[scott99]

HI, what are you going to use the lathe for, makes a difference.

scott99

 

[BrianPowley]

If you are needing a lathe to run most of the day,5 days a week, I might go with something different.
I've run them both...wouldn't have any problem owning either one, but my needs for a lathe are very limited.
Of the two you mention, the 14X40 GUNSMITH has a larger spindle bore and a gearbox.(and my personal choice of the two)
The 9X19 has change gears, which get to be a nuisance and lousy choice of speeds for threading. The 14X40 is much heavier and will perform better than the 9x19 bench model.
Remember: you can do little stuff on a big lathe, but you can't do big stuff on a little lathe.
Grizzly has a huge inventory of spare parts and good customer service.
If you are looking for superior accuracy out of the box, you might not get that out of the Grizzly---no matter how much "tweaking" you do to it.
You get what you pay for.

 

[Damien Connolly]

Thanks Scott. I'm a gunmaker - have been for 35 years. Do you have one of these lathes? Are they a rigid machine (within the limits of their size) ....are the spindle, bed and tailstock properly aligned? Is their capacity to accurately remove material commensurate with their size? Are the controls convenient and intuitive? The sort of thing that we'd like any lathe to deliver - whatever the use. I cover a large range of turning, threading,and with many odd setups.

 

[Damien Connolly]

I've always had 3 lathes in my shop Brian, and the little ones get by far the most use - gun parts are small as a rule. 20 years ago, I was nearly eaten by the 20x60 inch model I had in Australia, and have since found the smaller lathes a lot less stressful when the will do what I need. I have an aversion to leaning in on a spinning 10" chuck to watch the cut with my optivisor! But, when you need a big lathe, well, you need a big lathe - and the 14x40 is at the lower end of what I'd like, but at the upper end of what I can afford

 

[monk]

another idea : go online and check for reviews on this. i fell prey a few years back to total junk advertizing. i purchased a milling machine for $ 2,200. the info on this by the seller- among other things this was said to be taken around to race tracks. the guys would use it to repair engine parts. well, i found the thing was lousy just for trying to do the edges of belt buckles. good luck at the track, boys !

 

[BrianPowley]

I also use the optivisor when I cut on my 9" South Bend. It makes you pay attention to your surroundings,huh?
I would never use anything as big as that 20X60...life's too short and that monster literally can kill you.
Good luck...I wouldn't have any problem owning that 14X40 myself....

 

[bailey bradshaw]

Damien,

I have an Enco model 1340. The Chinese made machines are usually similar as they are probably made by the same company over there. I can hold good tolerances in general turning. Threading is OK but the compound slide could be more precise. I've had trouble with a couple of grears. One broken tooth on the gear that engages the rack gear for moving the caridge, and a worn bushing that galled and sized in the QC gearbox. The tailstock on my lathe has issues with alignment that I battle. No vertical adjustment and the quill has play. I bought it used so the previous owner could have had something to do with it.

The lathes have power and do work, but are certainly not a high precision machine like a Monarch or Hardinge.

There are a lot of Clausing lathes in the Northeast that would be close to you. They seem to be the better deal for a good machine at a reasonable price.

Hope you are settling in and enjoying America!

 

[rod]

Damien,

I use lathes almost seven days a week, and have worked on everything from watch makers tiny lathes to Clydeside ship builders lathes that put 30 tons between centers, and I apprenticed as a toolmaker with Rolls Royce. In my present work as a flute maker, my choice is the english Myford.

http://www.myford.co.uk/

The Myford is a durable general purpose tool making lathe, beloved my model engineers and the like.

They deliver to Australia.

Here are a few general remarks:

I agree that having one big lathe with lots of mass and big dimensions might be a necessity for your gun making work, and you probably use that only when necessary.

The smaller the lathe the better, provided it has the mass and precision to do the job.

I prefer belt drive all the way to the headstock, it is smoother running and no gear tooth whine.

If you are working up close, especially if you need to do some hand turning, remember, have no change of geometry as the work revolves. A three or four jaw chuck is very useful, but when revolving near to fleshy parts, like your hands and fingers, it is a milling cutter that will shed you. I know you are well aware of this, but others may not be. There are ways of mounting an external tube on the chuck to keep extended jaws from contact with your hands.

Mount your work on collets when getting up close... no change of geometry as it revolves.

Where possible, work on a lathe where you can pick up and mount a chuck with one hand ... 4 or 5 inch diameter. Many people buy a big lathe at a good bargain, used, only to find out it takes way too long to take the chuck off and on ... too heavy, and the speeds are too low.

I think Grizzly is a good company, and offers mostly Asian tools. The news is that tools made in China and Taiwan have been improving year by year, and prices are pretty good. That's bad news for out of work US machine tools makers, as well as other counties, but most of us have to be canny about spending our hard earned money.

Happy shopping!

Rod

 

[fegarex]

Damien,
I have seen your work and am still amazed! Grizzly makes a good quality Asain made equipment that is much better than most and would be probably just fine for a person like me that uses a lathe once in a while but I guess I would suggest you actually check them out. They may or may not be precision enough for the type of work I know you do.
Rex

 

[Damien Connolly]

Thank you everyone for your input. Think you're right Rex - looks like a drive to Pennsylvania, but its a good way to see some country. In Australia, I certainly would have driven Sydney/Melbourne (almost twice as far) for the same purpose.
I agree about the Myford Rod; Truly excellent lathes with great ergonomics, and clearance relationships between carriage and tailstock. I sold my 7" example on leaving Aust, and it had made a fine small general turning lathe for me since 1983. It sat between a 21/2" x 8" Emco for miniature precision work, and the 20x60 behemoth. I value the versatility of change gears in the small shop lathe. One of many odd setups it would accomodate; in the early nineties, I set mine up to turn the 10 start, 7/8"(?) x 1 TPI breech screw thread for a Ferguson Rifle I made. Try that with a quick change box -and it handled it without complaint!
Hey there Bailey; where are you situated - be nice to meet up one day. I was in the workshop of a NH guitar maker the other day. He had a brand new 8" Hardinge....$56,000!! A beautiful piece of engineering jewellery though.

Thanks again......Damien

 

[bailey bradshaw]

Damien,

I'm down in Texas, about two hrs East of Dallas. The door is always open for you, so please don't hesitate to plan a visit if you ever can. I'll have a booth at the Dallas Safari Club show in January. Could make a spot for you if you want to get some exposure.

I constantly peruse for tools. Looking at Monarch lathes on ebay turned this one up in New Jersey. Same price range as a Grizzly. Much more machine

Best to you,
Bail

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Monarch-lat...694?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fd72d8de

 

[mitch]

Hi Damien- welcome to the upper half of the globe! with our economy in the toilet, especially manufacturing, machine shops have been unloading a lot of surplus eqpt in the last few years. have you beat the bushes for a good used machine? you never know, you might find the cherry, low mileage lathe of your dreams collecting dust somewhere in New England. it's been my (limited) experience that one can often get piles of tooling & other extras thrown in for free, too...

 

[scott99]

HI, well everybody above seems to have gone into the possible problems and good points of asian lathes. They do seem to be getting better but I still see some quality problems.

Since others seem to be having good luck in general I have only one point to bring up. Make sure the lathe has a smooth BACK GEAR settup. If you plan to do chamber work a sound BACK GEAR is very important. If the BACK GEAR is sloppy you will get chattering (gear noise) and that will leave you with a rough chamber. I have been using an old South Bend lathe (10 inch tool room )for 40 years. When I bought it the only thing that was solid was the bed rails(no chips) and the head stock bearings (.0001 runout). I had to replace the nuts in the cross feed and compound feed but they were put in with no problem and I ended up with a sound lathe that has remained servicable for 30 plus years.

I suggest that a fairly sound South Bend rebuilt may be you best bet in the long run. The cross feed nuts are easy to replace and one of these machines can be found at almost any used tool dealer.

SO go new or take a dial indicater out with you and find a concentric head and stock replace the worn nuts ($20 buck each) and you will have a good lathe possibly for less money spent on a new asian machine.

One more thing the head stock thru hole should be as large as possible, mine is 1.875 dia and has allowed me to chuck up stuff using the large head stock opening instead of haveing to make a complex settup. To chamber I just chuck up a barrel in a four jaw and away I go. Something with a .
875 thru hole will someday drive you nuts.

Have fun, buying tools is always fun.

scott99

 

[Weldon47]

Hi Damien,

Good to see that you have made it to your new home! Good luck!!

Weldon

 

[fegarex]

I doubt if Damien needs many tips on proper tool usuage. Go to this link to see some of his work.
http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Connolly.htm
I'm not sure which project blows me away more, the minature rifle or the carved grips...
Rex

 

[Damien Connolly]

Yes Scott, a major stumbling block has been the small spindle bores of many older machines. My previous large lathe was 2.25" and it made a lot of work simple.

Just checked out the Monarch Bailey. Thanks for that. The seller doesn't specifiy the length or spindle size, and isn't taking enquiries.(huh?) I got a quote on transport anyway - 800 to1,000 bucks.

Thanks for all your help in this guys......Damien

 

[highveldt]

Damien;

I think in general the Grizzly 14x40 Gunsmith lathe is a good lathe, however, as I have not used one I cannot say definitely. After much deliberation, I decided upon a used South Bend 10L lathe with 4.5 foot bed as most gunsmiths in USA consider it nearly ideal for general gunmaking. As with the Myford it is refined 1930's technology. I bought a South Bend 10L with a D1-4 camlock headstock. and completely rebuilt it including regrinding the original flame hardened bed. I have a few hundred dollars more in my 10L than what you will pay for the Grizzly. My reason for not buying an inexpensive lathe such as the Grizzly 14x40 Gunsmith is not accuracy, but rather noise from the gear head. The inexpensive gear head Chinese lathes are just too noisy for this old gunmaker, and I must say that a South Bend 10L quick change thread cutting gear box can emit noise if it is worn a great deal.

You are wise to travel down to Grizzly and look at their lathes and to listen to them as well. If they have one of the new Taiwan made South Bend 14 x 40 lathes on the showroom floor listen to it run and compare. I would like to know what you think of the quality of the new South Bend. Please let me know and I may drive up to Pennsylvania, myself. I know that the new SB's are 4 times what the Gunsmith lathes price, but they are likely worth that much more.

It is fortunate that you live in the region of the USA where there are a great deal of used lathes--as that region was the metal working center of USA at one time. As a result if you decide upon a used lathe there will be much to choose from--take your time and a bargain will appear. I suggest that you view the "Practical Machinist" website and check out their Classified section and start looking there--post a message on what you need. I have purchase some real bargains on there website. One bargain was a horizontial milling machine that had been purchased by a school and sat in storage for 30 years unused, because someone had lost the arbor and top shaft support.

In my case, I am retired and restore English side x side shotguns and I am learning to engrave. I have in my shop 2 USA lathes, 2 USA milling machines, two different size Chinese mill/drills (small & large) that I use for drilling. I enjoy rebuilding machine tools as well and rebuilt one of the milling machines and both lathes.

Welcome to the USA. I have spent time in your beautiful home country as I worked in the engineering and construction business for Fluor Engineers until I retired. Most of our work there was Mining engineering. My favorite place in Australia is Tasmania---just like going back in time to 1957.

Best Regards;
Steve Howell

 

[Glenn]

Perhaps I missed this in previous posts. Though the old wonderful used lathes are cherished, most do not have hardened ways. Tapering up close to the chuck is common and a real problem to work around. Wear in the ways is common and this you may not know about until you have the machine home and set up. I love used equipment and I own several lathes up to a 30" swing and 144" ways. I also have two Chinese lathes that we have run for 20 years and they still hold great tolerances and have a large hole through the head stock and these I use for machining gun barrels etc. Hence purchasing new or used equipment can still be a good or bad experience.