Hot stuff, Andrew.
Really killer.
Best, John B.
Really killer.
Best, John B.
How Light Came into the World
- Thread starter Andrew Biggs
- Start date
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Thank you everyone for your very nice replies. The response is quite unexpected.
To answer a few questions
Alain...........Thank you, really appreciate that. Since our e-mail conversation you changed the way I looked at some of the things around me and took for granted.
Pierre......... My hand writing is pretty bad The font I used from the letterheads web site at http://www.letterheadfonts.com/ They are hand designed fonts by some really talented people. You have to buy them but they have some really unique and beautiful lettering styles.
Chris........... sleep isn't high on the agenda and once I focus in on somthing I pretty much get one eyed about it and do that to the exclusion of all else. Plus I don't really watch TV (except Doctor Who!!!).
Ron......... One of the beauties of this kind of thing is that there is no traditional way of depicting these legendary characters. Each wood carver made their own interpretaions and made the designs/carvings fit their own creativity. So I did the same and made them fit within the design trying to incorporate them into a western type scroll................using the things I learnt in your books!!!!
John B........... My friend, what can I say..........you're the best!!!
Cheers
Andrew
To answer a few questions
Alain...........Thank you, really appreciate that. Since our e-mail conversation you changed the way I looked at some of the things around me and took for granted.
Pierre......... My hand writing is pretty bad
The font I used from the letterheads web site at http://www.letterheadfonts.com/ They are hand designed fonts by some really talented people. You have to buy them but they have some really unique and beautiful lettering styles.Chris........... sleep isn't high on the agenda and once I focus in on somthing I pretty much get one eyed about it and do that to the exclusion of all else. Plus I don't really watch TV (except Doctor Who!!!).
Ron......... One of the beauties of this kind of thing is that there is no traditional way of depicting these legendary characters. Each wood carver made their own interpretaions and made the designs/carvings fit their own creativity. So I did the same and made them fit within the design trying to incorporate them into a western type scroll................using the things I learnt in your books!!!!
John B........... My friend, what can I say..........you're the best!!!
Cheers
Andrew
Bravo. This one gets the highest marks for design and creativity. I'm going to try standing on my head the next time I need to design. Maybe it's the excess blood................or maybe it's just talent. Back to the indigenous potato thing.
Otto Carter
Elite Cafe Member
That is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. I really dig tribal art. I'm working on an Aztec design for a motorcycle right now. This is just over the top. Inspirational etc, etc.
sdcoxx
Elite Cafe Member
Andrew,
Another delightful piece of engraving ART....
Thanks,
Stephen
Another delightful piece of engraving ART....
Thanks,
Stephen
Martin Strolz
Elite Cafe Member
This really is excellent engraving, Andrew! What a nice mixture of scrollwork and Maori design elements in a very clean and crisp excecution. Wonderful!
Martin
Martin
Roger Bleile
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Andrew,
Another superbly creative piece. I would love to have it. Which brings me to a question I raised before. For your next bracelet you could engrave a die rather than directly into the bracelet. Then make bracelets from the strikings. In this way you could multiply your efforts and your fans out here could then buy the bracelets made from your die.
As far as making the die, I'm sure other Cafe members such as Martin Strolz and Steve Adams, just to name two, could advise you and you could have a local die shop make the die plate and do the striking. I'm saying all of this because I'd love to have an example of this unique work but a resin casting will never duplicate your work like a die striking.
Roger
Another superbly creative piece. I would love to have it. Which brings me to a question I raised before. For your next bracelet you could engrave a die rather than directly into the bracelet. Then make bracelets from the strikings. In this way you could multiply your efforts and your fans out here could then buy the bracelets made from your die.
As far as making the die, I'm sure other Cafe members such as Martin Strolz and Steve Adams, just to name two, could advise you and you could have a local die shop make the die plate and do the striking. I'm saying all of this because I'd love to have an example of this unique work but a resin casting will never duplicate your work like a die striking.
Roger
KCSteve
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Roger,
Can they make a die from a mold of the bracelet (before it's formed, of course)?
If we can get Andrew in the habit of making molds from these wonderful works then we can at least get castings of them. If he can also get a die made without too massive an investment then there could be enough benefit for him to get him to do it.
Can they make a die from a mold of the bracelet (before it's formed, of course)?
If we can get Andrew in the habit of making molds from these wonderful works then we can at least get castings of them. If he can also get a die made without too massive an investment then there could be enough benefit for him to get him to do it.
Roger Bleile
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Steve,
A mold would be made for casting. A casting will never have all of the crisp detail of a die striking. I don't believe you can make a die from a mold. I have worked with dies but not as much as some of the other Cafe members and it was long ago.
The bracelets Andrew has already made can not be converted into dies. My suggestion was for any he might make in the future to start by engraving a die plate from the beginning then strike the unbent bracelets from the die then bend them. Once the die is engraved the bracelets can be struck from any metal from copper to gold and sold accordingly.
In making the die, the engraver can initially cut the design in reverse as you can see in Steve Adams' thread on the forum page or the engraver can cut the positive image as usual. This would be called a hob (or hub). The hardened hob is then pressed into an unhardened die plate with a hydrolic press. Next the die is hardened and the strikings are made from the die. You die makers out there please correct this if I am off base on this process.
Of course this suggestion is not only for Andrew but would apply to the bracelets that Weldon or Sam or any other skilled engraver makes. It is a little more work to make a die and deal with a die shop and to have the bracelets struck, however the fact that an engraver's work can be reproduced in exact fidelity to the original and sold in multiple would pay the engraver many times what he can get by selling only one original and would allow his work to be enjoyed and studied by many more people. As an example, an engraver could have a large number struck in copper for sale to folks like us and have a limited edition striking in sterling, hand signed on the back and sold through a high end jewelry store.
The problem with an engraver making a living by engraving guns or knives is that there is no way to reproduce all of the extremely time consuming work that goes into one piece. On the other hand a print maker/engraver or die engraver can reproduce his work for the masses and reap a better reward for his labors.
This seems like such a good idea I may try it myself but Andrew's bracelets are so unique in design that it seems a shame to be limited to only the original.
Roger
A mold would be made for casting. A casting will never have all of the crisp detail of a die striking. I don't believe you can make a die from a mold. I have worked with dies but not as much as some of the other Cafe members and it was long ago.
The bracelets Andrew has already made can not be converted into dies. My suggestion was for any he might make in the future to start by engraving a die plate from the beginning then strike the unbent bracelets from the die then bend them. Once the die is engraved the bracelets can be struck from any metal from copper to gold and sold accordingly.
In making the die, the engraver can initially cut the design in reverse as you can see in Steve Adams' thread on the forum page or the engraver can cut the positive image as usual. This would be called a hob (or hub). The hardened hob is then pressed into an unhardened die plate with a hydrolic press. Next the die is hardened and the strikings are made from the die. You die makers out there please correct this if I am off base on this process.
Of course this suggestion is not only for Andrew but would apply to the bracelets that Weldon or Sam or any other skilled engraver makes. It is a little more work to make a die and deal with a die shop and to have the bracelets struck, however the fact that an engraver's work can be reproduced in exact fidelity to the original and sold in multiple would pay the engraver many times what he can get by selling only one original and would allow his work to be enjoyed and studied by many more people. As an example, an engraver could have a large number struck in copper for sale to folks like us and have a limited edition striking in sterling, hand signed on the back and sold through a high end jewelry store.
The problem with an engraver making a living by engraving guns or knives is that there is no way to reproduce all of the extremely time consuming work that goes into one piece. On the other hand a print maker/engraver or die engraver can reproduce his work for the masses and reap a better reward for his labors.
This seems like such a good idea I may try it myself but Andrew's bracelets are so unique in design that it seems a shame to be limited to only the original.
Roger
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KCSteve
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Ah! Hadn't thought about being able to work in the positive and make it into a hob - that would let Andrew (or whoever) continue to work in the positive, just like they're used to, and still end up with a nice die. In fact, if a design were really popular it would probably be better to have a hob you could use to make new dies as needed. And you could still take a mold to provide castings for other engravers.
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Roger
You raise some very good points and what you say is an excellent idea.
All I know about the processes that you mention is from what I’ve read on the forum. I suspect that would be the easy part of the whole thing.
I know in my signwriting business that the easy part is doing the work………..getting the customers is the really hard part.
The difficult part is getting the work recognised and a jewellery store/chain interested enough to buy it at a price worthwhile to the engraver. You are then going from engraver to manufacturer and opening up a set of new challenges. Getting to the right people that actually make the decisions and hold the cheque book is borderline impossible unless you are either incredibly cheap (like Chinese/Indian imported goods) or already have a very high reputation like some world famous designer.
Unfortunately I’m not cheap and not a world famous designer with a reputation. The bracelet would realistically have to sell for $3000 (NZ) or approx $2500 (US). More would be better of course but that would have to be rock bottom prices. I’ve got a whole lot of ideas floating around for future projects that are quite exciting (to me anyway)
At the moment I engrave the bracelets etc. for pleasure as I don’t know anyone interested, or that can afford to buy them.
Having a web site would help (it’s something I’m bending my mind to) but even then getting someone to make a leap of faith and click “buy now†and part with that kind of money is a big call. Even if they were die struck and a lot cheaper then you run into the fact that there are a zillion jewellery web sites out there touting their goods.
Ideally a collaboration between designer/engraver and a manufacturer with a reputation (eg: Tiffany) would be the best way to go. At least that way the marketing side of it is largely taken care of and they already have an established client base. Just how you achieve that I don’t know. I guess it’s a matter of just pushing yourself forward and catching someone’s eye at the right time.
It’s certainly a really interesting and highly relevant topic of conversation that would affect a lot of people on this forum.
Cheers
Andrew
You raise some very good points and what you say is an excellent idea.
All I know about the processes that you mention is from what I’ve read on the forum. I suspect that would be the easy part of the whole thing.
I know in my signwriting business that the easy part is doing the work………..getting the customers is the really hard part.
The difficult part is getting the work recognised and a jewellery store/chain interested enough to buy it at a price worthwhile to the engraver. You are then going from engraver to manufacturer and opening up a set of new challenges. Getting to the right people that actually make the decisions and hold the cheque book is borderline impossible unless you are either incredibly cheap (like Chinese/Indian imported goods) or already have a very high reputation like some world famous designer.
Unfortunately I’m not cheap and not a world famous designer with a reputation. The bracelet would realistically have to sell for $3000 (NZ) or approx $2500 (US). More would be better of course but that would have to be rock bottom prices. I’ve got a whole lot of ideas floating around for future projects that are quite exciting (to me anyway)
At the moment I engrave the bracelets etc. for pleasure as I don’t know anyone interested, or that can afford to buy them.
Having a web site would help (it’s something I’m bending my mind to) but even then getting someone to make a leap of faith and click “buy now†and part with that kind of money is a big call. Even if they were die struck and a lot cheaper then you run into the fact that there are a zillion jewellery web sites out there touting their goods.
Ideally a collaboration between designer/engraver and a manufacturer with a reputation (eg: Tiffany) would be the best way to go. At least that way the marketing side of it is largely taken care of and they already have an established client base. Just how you achieve that I don’t know. I guess it’s a matter of just pushing yourself forward and catching someone’s eye at the right time.
It’s certainly a really interesting and highly relevant topic of conversation that would affect a lot of people on this forum.
Cheers
Andrew
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Hey Andrew!!
Absolutely beautiful piece of work!!
Here's a little factiod that might be of interest .... some cultures engrave the inside of the bracelet as well. The belief is that it is the inside of the bracelet that touches the skin therefor it is actually considered more important than the outside (particularly with religious type stuff). A nice gentleman from Nepal told me that he only engraves the inside. When he engraves the outside, it is just for us folks here in the West. Thought maybe this might help.
Chris
Absolutely beautiful piece of work!!
Here's a little factiod that might be of interest .... some cultures engrave the inside of the bracelet as well. The belief is that it is the inside of the bracelet that touches the skin therefor it is actually considered more important than the outside (particularly with religious type stuff). A nice gentleman from Nepal told me that he only engraves the inside. When he engraves the outside, it is just for us folks here in the West. Thought maybe this might help.
Chris
Hi Andrew
That is a very nice piece of work. I am very glad that you shared it with us. It is very nice being able to do the things that we enjoy doing, don't ever stop that just because the end product may be expensive. I have found that one of a kind's will sell to the right crowd reguardless of the cost. I was watching and auto auction the other day and an early Ford Roadster sold for 1.6 millon, it was one of a kind. I would rather spend my time engraving for enjoyment and selling at the right price to the right crowd than to spend a lot of time doing something I like less and not making that much profit. I know that I don't and probably couldn't if I wanted to make a living engraving, but I do make one of a kind objects for my enjoyment and I have never had a big problem selling them. I make just enough to support my "Habit" so to speak, that keeps me and my customers happy.
Again, great work and I hope I get the chance to meet you someday, it would be an honor.
That is a very nice piece of work. I am very glad that you shared it with us. It is very nice being able to do the things that we enjoy doing, don't ever stop that just because the end product may be expensive. I have found that one of a kind's will sell to the right crowd reguardless of the cost. I was watching and auto auction the other day and an early Ford Roadster sold for 1.6 millon, it was one of a kind. I would rather spend my time engraving for enjoyment and selling at the right price to the right crowd than to spend a lot of time doing something I like less and not making that much profit. I know that I don't and probably couldn't if I wanted to make a living engraving, but I do make one of a kind objects for my enjoyment and I have never had a big problem selling them. I make just enough to support my "Habit" so to speak, that keeps me and my customers happy.
Again, great work and I hope I get the chance to meet you someday, it would be an honor.
KCSteve
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Andrew,
Interesting!
While I was reading your message I was thinking "What we need is someone to set up a company selling the works of high-end engravers". Sure enough, a line or two later you suggest the same thing. It can't be that crazy an idea if both of us thought of it!
It would be an interesting business model - establish a relationship with the on-line engravers, monitor the forums and when you see a design that you think would sell ask to buy the reproduction rights. The engraver might have to produce a second copy, suitable for making a die from. The company might want to buy / sell on commission the original. Get the right people running the sales end and everyone could make good money off of the deal. Someone like Tiffany & Co. would be a good choice - they've got what it takes to sell the original pieces, the distribution chain to sell the (probably limited edition) copies, and the reputation for people to trust them.
Interesting!
While I was reading your message I was thinking "What we need is someone to set up a company selling the works of high-end engravers". Sure enough, a line or two later you suggest the same thing. It can't be that crazy an idea if both of us thought of it!
It would be an interesting business model - establish a relationship with the on-line engravers, monitor the forums and when you see a design that you think would sell ask to buy the reproduction rights. The engraver might have to produce a second copy, suitable for making a die from. The company might want to buy / sell on commission the original. Get the right people running the sales end and everyone could make good money off of the deal. Someone like Tiffany & Co. would be a good choice - they've got what it takes to sell the original pieces, the distribution chain to sell the (probably limited edition) copies, and the reputation for people to trust them.
Leonardo
Elite Cafe Member
Andrew,
Your designs with this work of merge cultures are fantastic. I think that it is really more important that the engraving itself because of it originality and quality. I like it very very much and I want to congratulate you again and also encourage you to going deep in your investigation and development. You are making something unique and really new to leave here, in our world, for the next generations. THANK YOU!
Leonardo
Your designs with this work of merge cultures are fantastic. I think that it is really more important that the engraving itself because of it originality and quality. I like it very very much and I want to congratulate you again and also encourage you to going deep in your investigation and development. You are making something unique and really new to leave here, in our world, for the next generations. THANK YOU!
Leonardo
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