Need some help

[tdelewis]

I am engraving a blued Ruger Vaquero. Everything was going nicely until I started to put a punch dot background on the loading gate. I'm using a no. 1 and have broken 2 because of the hardness of the gate. I must finish this with punch dot as I am almost finished with the gun. I think I have seen punch dot on other Rugers. How was it done?

 

[Dave London]

Yep call Ray and buy a dozen, don't know another way unless you anneal the loading gate. they are known for being rock hard

 

[Toad]

I've been told that you can aneal the loading gate by putting it in a oven at 450 degrees for 2 hours. Tell me how engraving the loading gate went for you.
Todd

 

[Roger Bleile]

Todd is correct but don't pull it out after two hours. You need to leave it in the oven or kiln until it cools down over several hours. Even after annealing the loading gates are the hardest part of the gun.

 

[Dulltool]

You can also heat it with a propane torch until it's glowing orange.... then let it air cool to the touch (20 min. or so). Roger is right... it's the hardest part in a SAA.

 

[monk]

never did gun parts. have done a lot of blacksmithing. the way i annealed hard stuff: heat to a nice red heat, then immediately bury the piece in ash or sand. leave alone for 24 hours or so. the idea is to let cool as slow as possible for the softest possible result. air cooling may result in softer, but not softest possible result. this applies to any metal you want to anneal, regardless of what the part is. be aware, when re-hardning, during the quench, certain parts will develop cracks. parts that are highly machined are more prone to cracking than things with fewer holes and sharp edges that meet. loading gates would not likely pose a problem.

 

[dickc]

Heating part and burying it in lime works real good too, some parts will still be luke warm the next day.

 

[Ed Westerly]

Remember, though that the reason the gate is so hard in the first place is the cam surface which holds the gate closed rides on the tip of a spring. You will need that area rehardened, or the gate will wear at the cam and will either get very hard to open, or won't want to stay closed. Ruger didn't just harden it to make engraver's lives more bothered! It's just easier to harden the whole gate than it is to harden one little spot!

 

[monk]

annealing on steroids ! i once found a gear at a local scrap yard. it was broken in half. i wanted to use it as a base for a sculpture i had done.so hard, a file skipped on it. i heated this beast, 3"" by about 12 or so inches in my forge. took forever to reach a red heat. when it was up to temp, i burried it in my ash/sand box. 2 days later was still hot. cooled off in maybe a week.

 

[Beathard]

I send mine to a gunsmith to anneal. After engraving I get them reheat-treated. Life is to short.

 

[Ed Westerly]

What! you are not a jack of all trades? Jump into the fire and anneal your own work, Beathard!!! :justkidding:

 

[tdelewis]

I tried the oven and 450 degrees. It didn't work. I packed it in fine sand and heated it for an hour. I let it cool in the oven until it was completely cool. When I took it out it was a straw color to dark straw color so I know the part was brought up to temperature. I would judge the hardness to be just the same as before, no change. I would suggest you don't fool with this Unless you are an expert at heat treating or you could end up with a bent or broken swing arm. If I do another of these I will plan a design like a fan or rosette that doesn't require the use of background treatment and use cmax to cut it. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

 

[tsterling]

I tried the oven and 450 degrees.

450 degrees is "tempering" which is not even close to "annealing." Annealing woud require heating to a specific red color (red hot temperature) and slow cooling. Carbon steel knife blades are too hard to engrave and have all been tempered around 450 degrees F, give or take a little for specific performance reasons.

 

[jerrywh]

I do a lot of heat treating and 450 is die tempering temp. It would still be hard as it is now if soaked at 450. Pack it in a small can of kitty litter or charcoal. A baby food can will work great. It needs to be heated to at least 1000° F and 1500°F is better. Than let it cool normally. Do not quench it. This way it will not oxidize and will be soft. That is not full annealing but is good enough to do what you want to do. Afterwards is another story. You could leave it soft. Or you could have it hardened again. This is best done in a furnace but you can anneal in any kind of fire that will get the can and it's contents hot enough as long as the part is packed in charcoal it will not hurt it. Oxygen is your enemy on this. PS don't use sand. The sand can melt and leave you with a real mess. Glass is made from sand and it will melt. I used sand for flux when welding in a forge I know.

 

[LVVP]

Thanks for the info