North West Coast style Engraving

[Wahta Mohawk]

Gentlemen .... AND Ladies

I joined this forum a while ago but haven't been able to practice my engraving too much due to job / time requirements. Now that I have more time to devote to this (and my other) hobbies I feel like I'm starting all over again. I would like to concentrate on North West Coast style engraving on various pieces of jewelry. I'd like to start with 16 ga. silver bracelet blanks. I've watched as many vids as I can find online and I have a few books on the subject. And maybe I'm missing something somewhere but I didn't find relevant info for the work that I'd like to do other than sharpening the gravers. Even the supplier that I've bought my equipment from can't help. To begin with I have an older GRS system 3 that I would like to start with before thinking about upgrading to something a bit newer. But what I would like to know more about is the style of gravers that you think I should use to do this work (please take a look at the pic) and where would be a good place to find them. ALSO, would it be a better idea to carve these in the round after I have formed the bangle or before as a flat piece of silver?
Any suggestion would be much appreciated.

 

[Brian Marshall]

First suggestion... go back into your profile and add in where you are from. You may find that there is someone close by willing to help you.

You will probably need various gravers for this work and all are sharpened differently.

Most of the work can be accomplished with a "V" profile ground onto a square graver blank. Everyone has a different opinion as to which one wins in this race. Personally, I prefer 110 degrees with a parallel heel. This is not a tool you can sharpen "freehand". You will need a sharpening fixture or template system do get accurate repeatable results.

You will need some round bottom gravers for your sculpting. Those can be sharpened by hand with some practice.

Flat gravers can be used for beveling, and some of the tribal silversmiths who have been here to visit use onglettes for the cross shading.

Square graver blanks and pre-formed gravers can be purchased from any one of the 3 dedicated engraving tool suppliers and most larger jewelry trade suppliers.

The piece you have shown would be much easier to carve (evenly) while flat rather than in the round.



Brian Marshall
SJAS
Stockton, CA USA 95209
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com
http://jewelryartschool.com/

 

[truehand]

Hi Wahta Mohawk,
It's me, Dave, up in Beaverton. You came up for a visit many years ago on a snowy winter's eve with Marcus. (I think Marcus recently purchased a Lindsay) As I recall we did a lot more gabbing than engraving! I'm glad to hear you're still at it and you are always welcome to come up for a visit any time.
I have played around with the style of engraving you are interested in learning.
I did a cuff bracelet for jenn years ago, not my design, just replicated something I saw somewhere.. Here's what it looks like with a few years of patina:

Like Brian said, it's best to do the engraving on flat silver plate and form after. I have the GRS former here if you need to borrow it. I also have an account at Imperial if you want me to pick up some plate for you. I used a square and flat mostly but also made some round bottom gravers to scoop and shape certain areas.

I hope that helps. I'm sure you'll get a lot of great advice here on this forum.

Cheers,
Dave
Truehand Engraving
Beaverton, Ontario, Canada
www.truehand.com
(705) 426-1156

 

[John B.]

Hello Wahta Mohawk,

Owen Walker is a talented carver and jewler/engraver in the Northwest style.
Owen is a member of this forum and may be willing to give you information.
Check here and in the Internet for Wallkergoldsmiths.

 

[monk]

wahta: i surely wish to welcome you to this forum. one reason is quite selfish; i absolutely enjoy, love, if you will, the art "style" borne of the northwest peoples. in my minds' eye it's every bit the equal of egyptian art, another favorite style.
your bracelet is quite handsome looking. not sure how you're doing it, but don't stop sending fotos. i know most everyone here enjoys work of this style.
our moderator, andrew biggs, does beautiful engravings based on the maori tradional art and culture of the new zealand region. you would enjoy checking that out in the archive, i'm sure.
"btw" working (engraving) your designs while flat, is always far easier than doing it after forming.

also i forgot to say this artform has taken way too long to arrive here on the forum. wahta, i know all those who come to this place will agree !

 

[Wahta Mohawk]

Ok .... Alot of questions so please excuse me if I didn't answer everyone's.
I just added some info to my profile, sorry I thought I had before.
DAVE... Sure I remember you. I do remember that night as well, more gabbing and eating pizza than engraving. LOL I've been living up north for a while but will be moving back down that way shortly. And I definitely will take you up on your offer for another visit. Thanks. I`ll give you advance WARNING! LOL
The bracelet in the pic that I included is not mine, it was only an example of the type of engraving I would like too do.
I was out in Haida Gwai a little while ago and bought a bracelet by an amazing artist named Carmen Goertzen (Hereditary Chief of Haida Gwai and featured on that native program Ravens & Eagles) that got me hooked into trying to do my own engraving again now that I have more time to devote too it.

 

[qndrgnsdd]

Whata...I cut the lines of the design with a square while the bracelet is flat, using my Lindsay classic, than crosshatch by hand with a 00 anglette. Than I bend the bracelet with my home made bracelet bender, being sure to get the compound curve that gives it spring. I than do all the carving by hand using a flat and a couple different sizes of rounds. Then some touch up and finish work with a silipum wheel and polish with Zam. I start with 18 ga silver sheet. I'm in Bellingham if you are ever out this way, stop by.

 

[qndrgnsdd]

I don't know if I did this right or not, but I think ther are three pics attached of current work!

 

[Wahta Mohawk]

Looks right to me. I think that if you, as the artist who created the piece like the way it turned out, then it's right. If you think you can improve on it then that's up too you as well.
I just took some pics of my bracelet. This is the type of work that I would eventually like to do.

 

[canadian]

Truehand,
how do you sharpen a round bottom engraver?
Anybody can explain or describe the process?
It would be much appreciated.
Thanks.

Boris

 

[qndrgnsdd]

I just sharpen them at a 45 degree face. I dont try to put bellies on them because by the time I'm using them the bracelet is bent. and I'm using a scooping motion to keep them from "diving"

 

[qndrgnsdd]

Also Whata: I know several engraver/carvers who draw the design on a flat sheet, then scratch the design with a scriber/point. They then bend the bracelet, tie it onto a wooden donut shape and do ALL the engraving/carving while the bracelet is bent. Steve Brown does it this way. If you look carefully you can tell if the bracelet was cut and/or carved while round or flat.

 

[truehand]

Canadian,
Personally, I wouldn't be able to use a belly-less graver like Owen describes. I always thought the round bottom was for comfort on the fingers!
anyway, when I make up a round bottom engraver, I usually do start with a round bottom blank of desired width and with a GRS powerhone and dual angle fixture just set the "belly angle" at about 15 degrees and then rotate it clockwise/counterclockwise smoothly back and forth through about 120 degrees (rotate 60 degrees one way and then back the other way through 0 to 60 degrees) as you are grinding. Then put a 45 face on. (or whatever angle you are comfortable with)
This can also be done with just a steady hand and sharpening stone but it takes quite a bit of practice.
Hope that makes sense.

 

[truehand]

If you look carefully you can tell if the bracelet was cut and/or carved while round or flat.

very interesting! what are the telltales to look for? I've never noticed.

 

[Wahta Mohawk]

Also Whata: I know several engraver/carvers who draw the design on a flat sheet, then scratch the design with a scriber/point. They then bend the bracelet, tie it onto a wooden donut shape and do ALL the engraving/carving while the bracelet is bent. Steve Brown does it this way.

Now that sounds like a neat idea. Never heard of that before.

I was looking at the GRS Power Hone on their site last night and something occurred too me. For those of us who are shall we say "economically challenged" I was wondering if the Work Sharp system from Busybee tools could be adapted to do the same thing as the Power Hone. With 2 versions of the system at $109 - $209 CDN I think it might be worth taking a good look at. I know that the speed (RPM) would be an issue but I was also thinking (I know, I think way too much) about making a box with an extension cord wired into a light dimmer switch then another socket. Plug the extension cord into a normal wall outlet and then the Work Sharp into the box. Couldn't you control the Work Sharp's RPM by using the light dimmer switch?
For those of us who also do wood carving I think having one system that could sharpen both gravers as well as wood chisels may be the way to go.

http://www.busybeetools.com/products/SHARPENING-SYSTEM-WORKSHARP-3000.html

 

[qndrgnsdd]

I know several NWC bracelet carvers who do all the engraving after the bracelet has been bent, BECAUSE, they don't put bellies on their tools at all! They sharpen the face only, by hand on an oil stone. when the bracelet is bent the tendency is for the graver to make short lines and come back out of the metal because of the curve. I find it very awkward and time consuming to do all of the carving on a curved surface, I can do it but would rather not, as I do this for a living, so time is money. If I had to choose which tools I could NOT get along with out, the would be a)My Lindsay classic and air compressor b) my GRS power hone c) my Foredom TX flexshaft d) my polishing machine.
To answer the other question about bent versus flat...If you do some experiments with some scraps you will see that when you bend a flat sheet with a v groove or a round bottom grove in it the groove is distorted as the sheet bends, more bend more distortion, so on a bracelet there are microscopic differences in the groove width and depth on different parts of the bracelets. I didn't realize this until I showed one of my bracelets that I had done all flat to Heiner Tamme, his first comment was "you cheated" then he explained what he was seeing. This is why I do only the fine lines flat (the crosshatching, and the main design lines) The main design lines all get recut during the carving so they are not a problem, and the crosshatching is so fine it would take some serious magnification to see anything distorted. I might add that if you do the actual carving flat the distortion of the shapes and lines is much greater than just the v or u shaped grooves, the larger area that is removed from the flat sheet the greater the distortion when the bracelet is bent. I hope this is helpful!

 

[qndrgnsdd]

It is a couple of hours later, and it just occured to me as I was carving the teeth on an Orca, I don't put bellies on my flats either, I don't get nice bright cuts, they are a bit chattery, but everything gets rubber wheeled and polished anyway. If I were to try to carve without having to rubber wheel and polish I would put bellies on both the rounds and flats and give them a high polish, but as I said before, I do this for a living so you learn what takes the least time and go that way, and that will be different for different artists. I looked at that power hone you posted a link to, and I think you are asking for aggravation if you try to go that route. My advice is to save up and get a good powerhone that can take an adjustable fixture, as sharpening is the #1 thing to learn to do good engraving. My work improved a great deal after I got mine and could get consistent angles time after time.

 

[monk]

wahta mohawk: you must be careful in doing this i'm no electrician, but a router speed controller might be a better choice. these controllers do the same thing, but have a rocker switch with "full", a variable setting (which is what you want ), and an off setting. very handy, ready to use out of the box. only thing is, you have to check that the motor is a "universal" type motor. or the controller wont work.

 

[canadian]

Thanks truehand.
The other day I called J.J Roberts and his explanations was the same.
I appreciate the information.
It is always nice to learn something new.
Best,
Boris