Question: Palladium and platinum

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi guys, I was wondering if any of you jewellers out there could give me any advice on palladium please? Is it easy to work with, how is it soldered, is it inlayable and how does it cut when it comes to engraving?

Also, when it comes to platinum which is the one that's best for inlaying? I've heard that there are two types and one gets hard very quickly when working with it.

As usual, any advice as well as anything else to do with these metals will be very gratefully received.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Marcus, do you want to know about the pure palladium or palladium gold alloy.
Palladium gold alloys have a higher melting point and are softer than other withe gold alloys. For stone setting, we use gold alloys with more palladium, and that makes the metal softer.
I worked with pure palladium and it is quite soft
For soldering gold/palladium alloys one need some borax. As the melting point of this olloy is quite high, it is quite easy to use hard solder. (high melting point).
For soldering platinum there is no need to use borax as it does not oxidize.
But the soldering temperature of platinum is much higher.

I'm quite sure both platinum and palladium/gold alloy, and pure palladium can be used for inlay. They also cut quite easy. Platinum is a great metal to work with, as it is soft, tough and hard at the same time.

Most platinum I work with is the pure one, 999/1000

arnaud

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Marcus Pld solders very well, it does not weld together like Plt. Palladium cracks and pits when welded. With either metal do not use a fire coat or flux. If stones are involved protect the stones by coating with heat gel. I,ve not done much inlay with either one but the alloyed metals in my opinion may work harden a little faster than pure gold, but may still be soft enough when inlaying in steel.

 

[ron p. nott]

hi Marcus .. I just inlayed palladium and gold border around a colt phyton and i though it inlay easy , now when it came to finishing it off I though it was hard . but inlaying was just like gold .. ron p

 

[mitch]

i've inlaid quite a bit of platinum sheet & wire and the 'pure' (.999 or whatever) works much like 24k gold. it's a little hard to find, tho. call Hoover & Strong- if you don't have a retail/resale tax license they won't sell to you direct, but will give you the names of jewelers or other accounts who might be willing to order it for you.

 

[Mario Sarto]

Hello Marcus!
Like Arnaud noted already, there are a lot of Palladium-alloys. For example
Pd 950 (with Ag and Ga)
Pd 950 (with Ni)
Pd 850 (with Rh and Pt)
Pd 500 (with Ag and Cu)
... many more.
They all have different colors - white to dark gray.

For soldering you use normal flux (based on Borax), which is used in the jewelry business. Welding is possible (you need special high temperature flux), but its behaviour is more like silver (a lot oxygen absorption). When soldering, there are no brazing alloys with the same fineness. Pd is sensitive opposite to carbon. When soldering or welding use a ceramic-based underlay.

The hardness doubles fast when deform about fifty percent (e.g. Pd 950/Ag/Cu: 84 HRB / 50 percent deformed) Especially in lower alloys (e.g. Pd 500) you can note some building of metallides. The dilatability is relative low. Don't overstrech. Anneal it after deform 50 percent by 800 dregee Celsius. Cool in water or in air.

If you like to use a Platinum-alloy, the 960 Platinum-Palladium will work best for you (inlay). It stays very soft. Color is white. Welding is nice (take care of your eyes!). When soldering you always will see (until you electroplate it) . Like said above, beware of carbon! Don't use normal flux (Borax), if necessary, only use special Platinum-flux. Usually you don't need any flux (soldering and welding).

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Thanks for all the incredible info guys, I might have known that it wouldn't be a straight forward answer though, lol.

If I were to inlay the 960 platinum/palladium alloy you suggest Mario (I like the sound of that), it wouldn't be affected by any chemicals such as blacking salts or case hardening would it?

 

[Mario Sarto]

... it wouldn't be affected by any chemicals such as blacking salts or case hardening would it?

It stays as it is. Only hot aqua regia (king's water - nitro-hydrochloric acid) is able to dissolve it.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Mario brings up a very important point. Don't weld or solder pd or pt without welders glasses (not sun glasses). It gets so bright you can damage your eyes.

Mario a couple of those alloy mixes look interesting. Thanks for posting them.

 

[Kevin P.]

Marcus, I'll bet you're throughly confused by now.
My opinion: use platinum; don't use paladium.

Use unalloyed platinum and be sure to use to glasses to protect your eyes if you're going to use a torch on it. Jewellry places such as Rio Grande sell such protective glasses.
Pure pt doesn't need a flux; it doesn't oxidize. But you haven't said exactly what your plans for this material are.
Platinum has qualities that palladium doesn't.

People sometimes say platinum is difficult. It isn't, but requires certain finishing techniques that differ from gold.
If someone suggests palladium, ask why other than the price.
What I'm saying here is not in response to anything that has been said except for the 'glasses' part. We're all trying to be helpful.

I don't want to throw your words back at you Marcus about 'sweetness of low price'. There's a big difference in price at the moment. Your skills are the most valuable thing going into the work.
Also platinium has a cache that palladium doesn't.
Kevin P.

 

[Nathan Ott]

I've done quite a few custom ring in palladium.

The only real problem you may run into with it is, like Mike said, that it can't be welded with a torch the way platinum can. It also can't be cast in your shop without some pretty expensive controlled atmosphere casting equipment, that is unless you REALLY like to burnish and laser pits.

Your only welding options are a laser or a TIG welder, and laser welds in a palladium aren't always the strongest.

This is an interesting page from a goldsmith in my general area who works with a lot of palladium.

http://www.kshane.com/tigweldingpg.html

You might try here also. There a great casting company, and Theresa can probably answer any other palladium questions you've got.

http://www.techformcasting.com/palladium_about.html

 

[James Roettger]

When I got into palladium I ordered up all the solders and used a minimum amount of platinum flux to hold the solder pieces in place while soldering with an oxy-propane torch. On large seams like adding palladium rims to a palladium band I experienced thermal shrinkage cracking that only showed up after I started working on the band. I also encountered added brittleness from the high heat palladium solders.
One day working on antique palladium die struck solitaire ring from the 40's I noticed it was factory assembled with gold solders. I took this as a lesson on how to avoid the thermal shrinkage strains put on by high temp palladium solders. Now I use 18K white gold solders to assemble any large seams. On a small seam like a bezel butt joint I still use the high temp palladium solders but any long large seams I now do with 18K white solder and have very clean satisfactory results.

 

[Kevin P.]

Good tip James. Thanks
Kevin