practice plate

[jacques herbst]

here is my practice plate i know it is not there yet and it is harder for me to show my practice plates cause all i see when looking at it is my mistakes.is it that way for you to?.this time the photo was taken with a background and i am sure you will agree it looks better than my dirty bench.your comments and critique welcome.

 

[threefingerdave]

What mistakes!
Wow that is really beutifull and a great inspiration to me
thankyou for sharing
3fd

 

[pilkguns]

Since I know I’ll have an e-mail in my inbox from Jacques if I don’t do a critique soon, here goes

First, Wow! It looks fantastic. Most all of the cuts are very clean, shading done very well, Overall balance and flow all good.

From a design standpoint, I would say the first batch of scrolls at 1 are different than the rest. Personally I like them better than all the rest of them, but that matters not one whit. Mostly what I don’t like about the rest of the scrolls is where the leaves reverse at the knot hole and the backboned of all the scrolls looks a little crooked (example just above the 2). You have done it consistently (except for the ones at 1) so its Okay, just not my preference.

What I do see as more troubling is the pins. The big pin holes (or screw holes) you used as the end circle for your main body scrolls. Very good, I probably would have done something similar. The little pins you have run all through backbones of the scrolls. Personally, I think this will look bad on the finished thing. The pins are round tapered heads and to me it would have been better to leave them as stand alone round decorative objects in the backgrouond amongst scroll and leaves. Or, it would have been more work, but you could have designed the scroll to use the pins as scroll centers on your smaller scrolls. But having them go trhough the leaves or background is going to distract from the pattern IMO.

Last thing I would point out is the scroll at 3. the flow of it looks wrong to me. Technically you could say it was coming off from 4 and it would be flowing correctly, but the overall appearance as it is looks like it is coming from 5 and therefore it does’nt flow right.

But overall its very good I am sure your customer would be very pleased with it

best
Scott

 

[jacques herbst]

thank you scott for your critique and your time.this is just a practice plate and i did not really know what the pins look like.i have two more of these and will design better next time.there are no customers for me till i can do this properly and that will take some more practice.some one said that it is easier to build a reputation that it is to try and mend a broken one just cant remember who. there is so much that i still need to get through this thick scull of mine before i will attempt to call myself anything close to an engraver.but every practice plate helps.

 

[JCB]

Question on finishes

If that had been a real part, what do you do to finish it so the shiny part doesn't rust? Or does the gun owner just need to keep it oiled?

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jacques

You have come a very long way. It was only a few months ago and you were asking for all sorts of advice on how to do single point shading. Look at you now!!!! All those late nights practicing have really paid off for you.

You've prepared the plate ready for engraving really well. Your border is nice and even. Your cuts are even and the shading is beautiful. You should be very proud of yourself. Well done.

I'll look forward to seeing the next two plates and putting Scotts critique into action.

Again......well done.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Marrinan]

Howdy Jacques
You have certainly gone a ways. This is a life long learniing activity isn't it-Scott provided some very good insights but I thought I might jump in here. There was something in the design that seemed to bother me, looked at it for several minitues before it doned on me-the unity of the whole is broken by there being 5 distict scroll patterns completely seperated from each other by background- Just my observation-the very best to you your shading is wonderful and each segment could stand alone but to me they do seem seperate-Fred

 

[jacques herbst]

jcb i don't really know the answer to that but would like to know.i am still learning and my knowledge of steal is poor at best and the same goes for firearms.it looks like there is much for me to learn not just engraving.Marrinan i see that to and thanks for jumping in.would it have been better if they went in and around each other or are you saying only one scroll covering the whole plate.threefingerdave can you see now what i see.

 

[JJ Roberts]

Jacques...Well on your way..good critique by Scott. Those pin and screw holes can be annoying to design around. There was an Italian shotgun manufacturer who redesigned the lock plates on his guns so there was no pins or screws showing just to accomodate the engravers. Keep us posted we would like to see more of your work. Keep up the good work.

Your truly,
JJ Roberts
Manassas, VA

 

[Weldon47]

Jacques,

Nice work, keep working at it, you've got it by the tail! I agree with the points previuosly mentioned & with persistence and practice you will see improvement. I too would like to see a more fluid continuity in the flow of your scroll. You'll get there! Remember, engraving is roughly divided into two equally important major parts 1. The mechanical/technical ability & 2. The artistic/design aspect. Your desire will ultimately drive you toward your goal & along the way you'll do well if you give time & attention to both.
Keep at it!!

 

[threefingerdave]

Jacques,
Now I do see that there is 5 distinct scrolls but it is still very good. I am new to engraving and have ALOT to learn but your practice plate is an inspiration to me. In all honesty would anybody be upset to have that scroll work on a gun? I kind of like to think that a scroll is left up to the engravers interpretation but i am very new to engraving so maybe that is the wrong approach.
I really enjoy reading the professionals post because of what i learn.
Thanks
3fd

 

[Ron Smith]

General comments: Beauty as far as scoll design is concerned, is not up to individual interpretation. Style is one thing, structure is another. In the beginning I had a pretty limited base from which to evaluate and so I judged work quite differently from what I do now. There are structural rules for grace and what Scott was refering to are the finer points of design. Focal points, clutter, rhythum, balance, mass, and volume dictate the rhythum and flow of the work and have great effect on emotional and visual impact. I see the things that he is talking about and you will too as you become more envolved with design and its effects.

Having said all of that, this is a very pleasing, clean, distinct, easy to appreciate job. One main thing. Keep your background spaces uniform. Keep your leaf masses fairly uniform unless you treat each scroll consistantly with tapering leaf structures, Varying scroll sizes become focal points when you have much smaller leaves than the larger spirals, creating clutter, or seperating them from your main design. Otherwise, this is a very good job and these are just finer points of design. Your customer would be very pleased and they are not nearly as critical, but some of us have learned all of this the hard way. Nice Job! I am pretty impressed with your effort. Carry on! Every piece will get better and better, I promise.
Ron S

 

[ddushane]

Jacques, I don't see any mistakes either. All I see is some beautiful engraving that needs to be resting on a fine shotgun rather than a practice plate. Dwayne

 

[jacques herbst]

thank you guys for the kind words and helping me out.i will keep practicing

 

[Brad Hartliep]

Jaques:

Excellent work. The piece really pops out and grabs your attention! The background (stippled? cut away?) looks like it's not even there - especially against that black drape behind the artwork.

I'm no expert, but, personally, I see nothing wrong with having 5 seperate scrolls - it gives your artwork a unique, but still very attractive, look. Yes...it does break up the unity of the piece, and will probably be disconcerting to most, but if that is the look you want to create, I'm sure there are others who would find it attractive and artistic as well. Yes...normally all the scrolls on a piece would flow together and and intertwine and travel in a "single" direction. I'm sure you know this already, because you clearly show it in your work already, but Scrollwork is generally considered to be an interpretation of Nature, a single plant growing out of the ground and reaching for the sky (or climbing a trellis), it's branches (the individual smaller scrolls) spreading out from the main root (the largest scroll), curling, and leafing out, basically in the same direction as all the others. Each one of your scrolls, individually, shows this progression quite nicely.

Now, considering the 5 distinct scrolls...As far as I know, there is no hard and fast rule that says you can't have five seperate plants growing out of your scrollwork. As long as you choose to consciously design it that way - with an eye toward the artistic elements of balance and creativity, which you already seem to possess - I see nothing wrong with cutting it that way...Like I said, it gives your work a very unique, and beautiful, look.

The technical aspects of your cutting and shading are excellent. Like I said, very eye-catching. The only critique I would point out - if you are looking for critique - and, again, I say your work is excellent - is that some of the scrolls end in round bulbs (#5 main, #4 main, and the smaller scrolls of #3, #2, and #1), while others (#1 main, #2 main, and main scroll of #3) end in a leafy point...also, that the scroll on the far left doesn't exactly match the other four. The four scrolls to the right all have that sort of - what I would call - a "Fish Mouth" or "Hand in the shape of a C" look to them with the curved crosscuts down the spine...near the end of the scroll, where the leaf branches off just before the scroll turns in on itself. #1 scroll (the left scroll) doesn't carry this feature and it offsets it somewhat from the rest of the artwork, which otherwise has a very uniform and consistent look to it.

Anyway, excellent work Jaques - especially for a practice plate and, according to these posts, your recent introduction to the art form. I don't know how long you've been practising, but you should be very proud of your advancement. I wish I was that good