Question for the big dogs

[dclevinger]

In the next few weeks, I'm going to be doing some small raised gold lettering. At this point, I'm thinking of using a 120 to cut a shallow channel for the teeth. The lettering will only be about 1/16" tall. Do any of you have thoughts on a better way of doing it?

Thanks in advance.
David

 

[Ron Smith]

Hi David,

I am presuming you are doing block letters.

The only thing I might suggest would be a parallel sided tool for the stems. Lettering is very critical and accuracy begins to fall apart and look raggidy if you are using something that the depth and width of the cut varies even slightly. A very narrow round bottom tool would give you a similar situation as the parallel sided tool. You can do it with a 120, but you will need precise, precision cutting, whereas the parallel tool doesn't vary the width of the line no matter if you vary the depth of the cut. The 120 would.

I am not saying you can't do it that way, just that my suggestions might make it a bit easier.

It is also easier to see the cut next to the scribe line cause it has a distinct edge for one side of the cut if you can visualize that. If your dimensions vary even slightly during any cut, particularly on small lettering, it shows up glaringly. Or at least it does to me.

And Yep! a better, easier way too, would be to make the letters one inch tall, HeeHeeHee

Hope this helps.

Ron S

 

[FANCYGUN]

David
I'm with Ron.
I use a flat bottom or round graver to cut my lines this way I have parallel sides. With this you can even bugger up the depth a bit and still have it look good. Then you can tooth the bottom or undercut a bit the sides.

Marty

 

[dclevinger]

Thank you Ron and Marty. I will take your advice.
Not only are the letters tiny but they are also going into a shallow, ribbon shaped recess. I'm looking forward to the challenge but not the stress. ;-) I think I'll do a few "practice" letters in silver first.

Thanks again.
David

 

[Marcus Hunt]

David, is there any particular reason that the letters need to be raised? It's far easier to strike them flush if at all possible plus the effect is much nicer.

What are you actually inlaying into? If it's mild steel, try inlaying as normal, strike the gold down flush with the steel using water of ayre stone, paint a resist around the banner and then use acid or ferric chloride (this will work on stainless steel too) to etch down the background slightly. I use this technique when gold inlay is required on guns that are being coin finished as it gives contrast to the inlay.

The main problem with raised gold letters is striking them all of to the same height after inlaying. If you don't manage to get them smooth they can look terrible. The only time I tend to use the raised technique is when inlaying gold numbers onto guns that have already been engraved and they look nowhere near as good as flush inlay.

Just as a side line, if you are ever inlaying letters or numbers that are the larger type (i.e. larger than 4mm) you can always consider damascening the letters onto the steel and cutting them to final shape after they're applied.

 

[dclevinger]

Marcus,

The customer would prefer raised lettering if at all possible. It's an older American double gun, so the metal is much nicer to cut than our modern guns and it is going to be color cased afterward. The original lettering was cut in the steel and had the background removed but has been damaged beyond repair. My plan was to smooth the bottom of the ribbon, inlay the lettering and then stone them flush with the upper surface of the steel.

My original plan was to use Sam W's iron inlay technique to fill the whole ribbon in and then either cut the lettering just like it was or use flush gold. The big problem is that the gun already has engraving right up to the ribbon and several raised gold animals that are very close. I was afraid of damaging the animals, while stoning the iron down, and creating even more work for myself. At this point, I am open to any suggestions.

I'm going to be doing a gun for the local SCI chapter and am planning on damascening the logo on a floorplate. Don't be surprised if you hear from me about it in the near future. wink wink

Thank you for the response.
David

 

[Marcus Hunt]

David, the old technique on English guns was to cut around each letter (it only really works with block lettering) and then cut away the background. You have to be careful not to cut away the dovetail though.
It sounds as if you are coming at this project from a very difficult approach because the problem you are going to have is trimming up the letters after you've inlayed them. Are you using Roman or Block lettering? Either way you've got to make sure each stroke of every letter is the same thickness and is parallel or it will look terrible.

Regarding stoning, you just have to be very careful. Use a soft Water of Ayre stone and if need be, shape it first to fit the narrow area.

I'm almost tempted to say that your original idea of iron inlaying first might be the way to go but I'm cautious as a) I've no experience of this technique, b) iron won't case harden, and c) will it take case hardening colours or will it stand out like a sore thumb?

 

[FANCYGUN]

David
Can you post a picture of the action so we can see what you are up against before you start? That could help us all determine what would be your best approach here.
Marty

 

[dclevinger]

Marcus,

I looked at the ribbon again and realized that I'll only need to do a little clean up work to get the bottom smooth. At that point, it will be less than .010" deep. I think I can flush inlay the gold and then remove a bit of the background with ferric chloride.

Marty,
It's the one that you looked at when you were in town. I blurred the work that was already done by another engraver. I'm not sure how the lettering got so damaged but it's my job to make it look as good as possible.

David

 

[Ron Smith]

David,
That appears to me to be a place where there was a gold inlay that came out and the lettering was engraved on the strip of gold, Is that correct? If so, not too difficult a job to fix. Sounds like you are going in the right direction if you are going to inlay a piece of gold there and engrave the lettering on that. Either that or inlay a piece of iron to make the banner and then engrave the letters on it. It looks to me as if the piece was grayed and in that case, the ferric chloride will give it an etched finish. Test the ferric chloride idea some obscure place on the action first to see what reaction you get colorwise and texture wise.
Ron S