right or left

[dave gibson]

Is there a general rule or favorite method about left turns, right turns, clockwise, counter-clockwise vise rotation for right or left handers, inside or outside turn? I'm right handed and I found on my most recent project that a left turn cut with a clockwise vise rotation seems easiest for me, alot like swinging a baseball bat right handed. The eye hits the work in the right spot. All thoughts appreciated. DG

 

[mdengraver]

Go to the Search Section of the Forum

Search under "Leaning on a Curve" in the Engravers Cafe some discussion on this.

 

[Roger Bleile]

Dave,

Cuting to the left with clockwise vise rotation is easiest for right handers due to the way the wrist bends. At one time engravers who did all of their work with a burin were taught to cut right handed for that reason and because the cuts for script lettering were designed that way. Also if you are cutting with H&C in the sidehand style your left wrist will easily bend to the left but not the other way. As long as you are cutting on flat plates or on the sides of knives you can mostly cut in this way.

When it comes to working on guns or other items that present hand obstructions like recoil shields, fences or trigger guards you have to be versatile enough to approach a cut from both directions. There are often times on guns that one must cut part of a spiral beginning in one direction then stop and cut the other half from the opposite direction and make the two lines meet perfectly as to the depth and degree of flare. This is one of the reasons that gun engraving is a different ball game from working on other items of metal.

Another point along this line is that most engravers start each cut at the fine point then cut to the deepest part and pop the chip out. I believe that this was originally taught to reduce the chance of slipping out of the cut with a burin and because you can build some inertia with the graver going from the shallow end to the deep end. With powered gravers this way of cutting is not necessary except for shading cuts. After going to powered engraving tools many years ago I started cutting from the deep end to the shallow end. That way the chip just falls out without any need to force a heavy chip out at the end. Nevertheless I think that my brother and I are the only engravers who do it that way. Again, because of hand obstructions you may be forced to start a cut from either direction.

Roger

 

[Kevin P.]

"cutting from the deep end to the shallow end. That way the chip just falls out without any need to force a heavy chip out at the end."

Roger that method is interesting in that I've had situations where that would seem ideal.
Could you amplify on that method? It seems like the heel could cause a problem?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Kevin P.

 

[silverchip]

While the world seems to be geared for right handers, there are some of us poor souls that were cursed to be absolutely leftys.!!I learned to engrave entirely by hand at first.My lesson plan included cutting from both ways and backwards away from obstructions at times.Eventually my leftiness took over though and I ended up cutting to my strong side:beat up::beat up:!!

 

[SharpGraver]

For the information of all Lefthanders and Righthanders everywhere:

All human beings are Left handed at birth

it is only when a person has Sinned that they become Right handed

just a little religious and biological trivia for those who weren't aware of this

important biological fact.

:thumbs up:

 

[DKanger]

it is only when a person has Sinned that they become Right handed

I would have to disagree with you, Dave. Left-handed people are said to be "sinistro-dextrous," meaning the hand of the devil. It's why we lefties are so creative, independent, contrary, etc. It's also why the church people were always trying to make us right-handed, but they weren't successful. All the ones they thought they converted ended up not knowing whether they were coming or going. :beat up:

 

[SharpGraver]

DKanger you do have a valid point there. I notice that you live on the left side of Tennessee also:yes

 

[Chas]

If the left side of the brain controls the right side of the body, then only left handed folks are in their right mind! Couldn't resist--I'm a lefty too.

 

[mdengraver]

The French Words for Left

Gauche = left, but also has a derogatory meaning, like unorthodox or not right, non-conforming, somewhere out in left field.

Maladroite= bad right literally, but the meaning is clumsy, awkward

I'm left handed but that's my two cents on the subject.

 

[dave gibson]

Roger, you said "I started cutting from the deep end to the shallow end. That way the chip just falls out without any need to force a heavy chip out at the end. Nevertheless I think that my brother and I are the only engravers who do it that way."
I started cutting this way too, it seems more natural to me.My teacher and others told me it's done the other way. Do you still shade this way? Do you feel it's ok for a beginner to cultivate this method? In tattooing we always shade dark to light and lift out, that's why light to dark seems awkward to me. Dave

 

[Roger Bleile]

Dave,

I do not shade deep to shallow. I do it like most everyone else. This is because on your shading lines you want them ultrafine on the tips. To get that effect you start each fine shade line on the belly of your graver for a minute distance as you gradually raise your hand until the graver begins to bite. You continue making the the shade line deeper until the line terminates, usually where it intersects another line. When the shade line intersects another cut the chip will fall out.

"Do you feel it's ok for a beginner to cultivate this method?" I see no problem with it other than you may have experienced engravers or instructors telling you not to do it that way. As long as you are using power assisted gravers I think you can start at either end of the primary cuts. On the other hand, for engravers who are expierienced and comfortable going thin to thick there is no reason to change. I think it is mostly what you get used to.

RB

 

[fegarex]

Roger,
I guess I can see cutting llike you mentioned for some cuts but how do you get a "square" end of the cut? Trying plunge the graver deep from the start seems like it will always make a point from any kind of heel. For much of English engraving for instance you want to "pop" the chip at the end to get a blunt finish.
Maybe I am reading too much in what you said.
Rex

 

[Roger Bleile]

Rex,

If a square end to the cut is important I may start at the other end or back cut. In any case I think it is good to be able to start on either end depending on the work.

Contrary to popular belief, English scroll has been cut in various ways. As an example, look in my glossary under English, Inglesina, and Altdeutscher Arabesken. I have looked at the scrollwork on hundreds of British and European guns and it seems each one had variations unless they were the "house style" of the same maker. I have cut a number of variations in my "backwards" way but if I wanted it to look like the fine scroll that Marcus does I would need do it the other way.

Let me make something clear. I am not trying to push for people to cut the way I do, especially anybody who is alrady comfortable doing it the more traditional way. I got used to cutting the way I do because I didn't know it was "wrong" and found some things I like about it. In answering Dave's question I thought it useful to point out that for the sake of versatility an engraver needs to learn how to make cuts starting on either end.

For anyone who is interested, I will be happy to demonstrate at the Engrave-In. If you saw my flare cut demonstration there last year you saw how I do it.

RB

 

[fegarex]

Thanks Roger. I understand better now. My "down and dirty" version of English scroll is just easier for me to do it the traditional cut but there are many times like you mention that doing it the other way is required when working in guns.
Rex