By far the simplest Vice/Vise Centering method!

[Artemiss]

Hi folks,

I recently spent a day looking through the various 'vice centering' threads.
I read many posts which involved little laser attached gizits and things which really looked like they should be attached to a denists chair!
Most of them also stated that they were 'simple' methods too! Whilst this may well be the case, I felt like I needed some kind of engineering degree to just read the post!

I was just at the stage of tearing all my hair out.

BUT THEN... I found the Holy Grail of centering advise. Yes a video... but not just any video... a truly wonderous video!
Within 10 seconds, I was centered, with a full head of hair!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LznI3df70YI&feature=player_embedded

I'm sure most of you have seen this, but I've searched on this site, and couldn't find it posted. (However, apologies if it's a repeat)
Thank you Steve!

Amazing... I had no idea just how much easier, centering the vice, has made engraving.

ATB,

Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Jo, Jo, Jo..........that is what we have been trying to explain to you and others but a movie is worth 10 thousand words. The only thing is the centering pin he talks about just replaces the circles on his turntable. After a while you don't even need the centering pin or the circles and you can just do it by eye...............I told you it was a piece of cake when you get the hang of it.

Now you know why some of the greatest engravers in the world are balding..................they finally mastered the art of centering but it just took a while.

I feel a victory song coming on accompanied by a wobble board................Altogether now!

Tie me kangaroo down, sport
Tie me kangaroo down
Tie me kangaroo down, sport
Tie me kangaroo down


Cheers
Andrew

 

[Artemiss]

Jo, Jo, Jo..........that is what we have been trying to explain to you

Well, why didn't you say so!

I'm just relieved that I found the video before my 'female pattern balding' took hold!

Thanks, another day with that damn tune in my head! Arrrggg!

Jo

 

[jerrywh]

That doesn't work too well with a 32" shotgun barrel or a 42 muzle loading barrel. A pointer works better. I like the way his turn table slants.

 

[sam]

I just spin the vise and look for the point of rotation, then move the scope to that point. It's fast and easy. Of course I only do this if I've bumped my microscope off center. As I said in another thread, my scope is LOCKED DOWN and cannot move easily, so I'm always on center. If you move your microscope (and I can't think of a reason you should, unless you have to move it completely out of the way for something), then you must re-center. For newbies or those not accustomed to getting everything on center, a centering post or other device makes it fairly fast. FYI, Lynton McKenzie used a long steel pointer attached to his microscope stand that would swing and lock on center above his vise for quick re-centering. Of course the vises we used at that time were heavy floor mounted vises with dovetailed slides for stand-up engraving. Today's ball vise w/turntable is VERY easy to center with nothing more than a quick spin.

 

[fegarex]

Like Sam and Andrew said, I just do it by "eye". I did make up a laser pointer thing and while cool looking, it really only allows exact centering which really isn't needed. I think most beginners really struggle with the turntable/scope thing. As Sam says, you need to set the scope up centered to the turntable/vise and then NOT move the scope. I know a lot of people "chase the work" with the scope and in the long run it causes more work.

 

[sam]

I know a lot of people "chase the work" with the scope and in the long run it causes more work.

I see it in every class I teach, Rex. Most aren't thinking about it when they grab the scope and move it around. It's just a habit that needs to be broken because as you said, at the end of the day a significant amount of time has been lost chasing the work with the microscope.

 

[Artemiss]

To be honest guys, after watching Steve's video, I just centered it by eye too.

One of the threads I read, Sam did mention doing it by eye, and after seeing the video, it all became very clear.

And yep, I now understand moving the scope, once centered, is a BAAAD thing!

Anyway, I just thought I'd post it here, because as a newbie, it helped me a lot.

Jo

 

[Andrew Biggs]

The other thing I have noticed is getting the microscope parallel with the work so that they are on the same plane. If the microscope is on an angle to the work, then your work will always drift in and out of different angles which makes cutting curves like scrolls and even basic stone setting, extremely hard as you are continually having to adjust the plane of the vise, or your hand position.

It pays to take the time and trouble to spirit level the top of the vise............and the bottom of the microscope so they are parallel. Then lock it all down.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Doc Mark]

I agree with Andrew. Here I thought I was the only one who used a "bullseye" spirit level (cheap plastic one sold at Ace Hardware) on my vise. It really does help.

 

[rod]

Jo,

Thanks you for your post!

As you have read in the responses, almost everyone has their convincingly best way to center ( centre), and the video is very well made, but notice most have a long list of do's and don't in order that their 'simple' method works. Certainly with a locked microscope and turntable, one can maintain scope axis, and many never move the 'scope. You misunderstand the use of a mini laser, perhaps the idea is distasteful, yet I assure you my $3 device works beautifully, and you may remove the 'scope and bring it back without a problem. There are no do and don't rules, just a small dot of any brightness or faintness you desire, always located exactly where the revolving axis is.

I am just about to spend another $3, and make one for Sam, to see if his beginner classes like it.

That said, I do agree, we should all go with what we are comfortable with, and seasoned artists only need a partial spin of the work to home in to the revolving axis.

best wishes!

Rod

 

[sam]

I'm looking forward to your laser centering device, Rod!

 

[Artemiss]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for your comments.

I found the thread/video on 'the other' engraving forum, and the comments it received made me think it would also be appreciated here too.

It was not my intention to instruct seasoned veterans on centering their vice/scopes, but simply to help complete newbies, like myself.
As Andrew said, a picture tells a thousand words.

Some of the threads explaining the whole centering thing, are just mind-boggling for beginners, who maybe, don't even realise the importance of the setup.
For the person writing the explanation, it all seems exceptionally simple of course.

Up until now, I've only been using the vice and microscope for Scrimshaw, and didn't understand the reasoning behind centering until I started 'scratching' metal, and my lines kept disappearing from vision.

I do (now) understand the laser thing, and did actually buy one. Somewhere along the lines, I will incorporate it into my setup, just incase my microscope gets knocked.

If, like Steve Shepherd, you can spare the time to make a simple video, I would love to see it.

ATB,

Jo

 

[sam]

Jo: Every time I teach a class I'm reminded how confusing centering is to engravers who haven't used a turntable or positioning vise before, and how much those of us who have take it for granted. As you said, until you started engraving and had your work disappear from view you didn't really understand the importance of having everything on center. I can see the benefit of a red laser dot for quickly lining up the scope. It will also benefit those using a side or back mounted video system because the lens must also be aimed at the center of rotation so everything stays in view on the monitor when the vise is rotated.

 

[rod]

Jo,

Thank you for your good posts!

All of your points are nicely put. By the way, when I wrote "seasoned artists", I was referring to others, not myself, I am a pretty good hammer and chisel guy, and hoping to improve my sketching slowly but surely.

Tell you what, if I get my wee laser thing over to Sam to try, and he approves that it might be useful, I will let you have full details. Obtaining a red laser pointer and shining its very bright light on your work is very off putting, and I can imagine most people putting it aside at once, however it can be easily tamed from a car high beam to a friendly candle light glow. I could even make you one for free, but these days it might be seized at Customs as being a suspicious device? Let's stay in touch!

best wishes!

Rod

 

[nhcowboy]

That video is helpful, it prompted e to build a turntable from my old potter's wheel head and the base to an old drill press, couldn't do without it now! One word of warning however, NEVER use magnets on or near your vice!! I fooled around using magnets to try and invent a centering device and now I have an expensive magnetized engraving ball vice, it is maddening when engraving steel! The chip stays on the 120 graver which by proxy also gets magnetized. I am constantly (when engraving steel) trying to wipe off magnetized curls from the face of my graver and it not only slows me down but frustrates the heck out of me, it wasn't a good decision to place magnets on top of my ball vice. Save yourself my regret and keep magnets away!
Paul

 

[Artemiss]

That video is helpful, it prompted e to build a turntable from my old potter's wheel head

Oooo... How does the potters head fair?
My first turntable attempt has been made with the workings of a lazy susan (like most folks first try, I suspect). And whilst the part is fairly good quality, it's by no means perfect, and can be a little 'clunky' when turning slowly.
I was considering going down the route of the potters wheel myself, so very curious.

My normal method of tool discovery goes something like this...
1. Buy cheap and cheerful parts, make my own, to save a bit of money. (and P&P from U.S.)
2. Start building, then realise at least one part is not quite right, return back to shop to buy alternative.
3. Repeat step 2 a couple more times.
4. Continue building, spending hours of blood, sweat and tears until complete.
5. Setup my new 'gizzet' and stand back in awe at my efforts.
6. Start using said 'gizzet', realise it's not that great afterall, whilst listening to a voice in the back of my head says 'why didn't you just buy the right item in the first place'. (tut) :thinking:

I sense an imminent order to GRS! :biggrin:

 

[sam]

I think I made at least two turntables with lazy susan bearings from the hardware store. The just weren't smooth enough. I know Don Glaser at GRS had made one that worked fairly well, but mine sure didn't.

 

[dlilazteca]

Where is this video that everyone is talking about is the video link broken can someone re repost it thank you

Carlos De La O III

 

[BrianPowley]

Just now, I clicked on the link and it says, "This video is unavailable. Sorry about that."