Black Leaf references...books...

[Donny]

Looking for more picture references of Blackleaf scroll design. Even Print ad sections...

Art books would be a plus...any help or thoughts would be great!

Donny

 

[dlilazteca]

Donny,

that is something I would love to learn also, maybe something like Lee's book and dvd for example.

Saludos,

Carlos

 

[JJ Roberts]

Old German Target Arms Vol 1&2 by Tom Rowe with many target rifles with German Black Leaf designs. J.J.

 

[Donny]

Thanks JJ!

I'm looking for as many different treatments or extras that are acceptable when creating designs within this scroll style. Leaf shapes, curls, vine/scroll accents and the like. I collect DGJ and have seen many of those pictures but hand drawn images would be pretty cool to get ahold of too.

Although Small English Scroll is a personal favorite followed closely by Nimschke and American scroll I have been trying to push my drawing in the direction of Blackleaf but need A LOT MORE possibilities to design from...

Donny

 

[Donny]

OK JJ you have expensive taste in books Just had to pick myself off the floor....those will be "wife outta state" purchases!

Donny

 

[dlilazteca]

Donny, those are priced at engraving prices, what you will learn will be 10 fold if not more.

Saludos,

Carlos

 

[Ron Spokovich]

It's a little late this evening/morning, but during the day I'll look through my German books to see what they deem 'German Black Leaf', and get back with a reply of the titles, and approximate prices of the texts. But, they ain't cheap, but extremely informative. Prices for books, as I see it, are governed by the amount printed, the work in composing, and if they go out of print soon. . .the knowledge gained, however, does not come with a price tag. That's just the way it works.

 

[JJ Roberts]

Donny,I have a large collection of books for reference when needed and I try to help students and fellow engravers when I can. J.J.

 

[Fred Bowen]

Donny, Check out ADVANCED DRAWING OF SCROLLS by Ron Smith, available at GRS. He has a section on drawing Black leaf and several other styles. It is also a valuable guide to drawing engraving styles in general. It is definitely worth the price.

 

[Donny]

Donny, Check out ADVANCED DRAWING OF SCROLLS by Ron Smith, available at GRS. He has a section on drawing Black leaf and several other styles. It is also a valuable guide to drawing engraving styles in general. It is definitely worth the price.

Fred...thanks for the info That one I have...

I have no aversion to spending money on books or study guides or DVDs or all my tools...I was just Funning around with JJ. I have gathered over the year that he does have a large array of books and research material from his posts on here.

I will buy the two he recommended to be sure. But the more references the better..

Donny

 

[JJ Roberts]

Donny, Vol.2 is the better one to buy it has more pictures of engraved rifles and wood carving Vol.1 has less and more on the history. J.J.

 

[Roger Bleile]

Everyone on this forum may not be familiar with the term "Blackleaf." It is a style of scrollwork commonly found on guns engraved in Germany and Austria. Austrian engravers usually call it "Altdeutscher Laubgravur" (old German leaf engraving) but in Germany it is often referred to as "Wetzlaub." I make reference to blackleaf in my glossary here: http://www.engravingglossary.com/Hand Engraving Glossary B.htm and to Altdeutscher Laubgravur here: http://www.engravingglossary.com/Hand Engraving Glossary A.htm

Beside the Germanic engravers, I have seen some really nice blackleaf on English doubles. Phil Coggan does a particularly elegant rendition of blackleaf as does Winston Churchill.

I would love to see a tutorial on the process of drawing blackleaf. In trying it myself, I find that I can draw the leaves and various elements pretty well but when it comes to filling an irregular space with it, I find it difficult to form a design with good flow.

Below are examples engraved by Ralf Salzmann of Germany and Phil Coggan:

 

[Donny]

Yep!!! What Roger said! Thats why I am looking for other Treatments/extras/objects/rings/curly's/....all the other stuff that isn't a leaf or a stem/vine...in most styles one can say this doesn't look well or it's outta place within a certain compassion. In the top example shared by Roger if I were to place sculpted walnuts in the design most of you would be think that I was totally bereft of sense or at the very least feel that I had no clue about art. So my search is for as many things that "go" within this style for gun and knife designs....

I, like many, am looking for "my signature style within a style" when I first started engraving I was positive it would be within the style of....

Donny

 

[diandwill]

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?browse=0&title=old+german+target+arms&mtype=B

 

[Ron Spokovich]

I believe that Roger is correct in that 'German Black Leaf' refers to a particular style of German or European engraving, rather than a particular leaf you may pick off of the ground in a forest. After conferring with a native German friend of mine this morning, he said that the oak leaf, in Germany, is used for documents, uniforms, and engraving. My two texts, "Suhler Luxusgewehre" at 160 pages, and "Waffen Gravuren" at 270 pages, are loaded with numerous, fine examples of this engraving style. Pricewise, I can't recall, but they weren't cheap. I suppose a good time to look around for texts like these would be when your wife goes on that much deserved vacation she earned. The gun shows were where I picked up almost all of my texts. Happy hunting!

 

[Beathard]

The Smith book has some great instruction on the style.

 

[sam]

In my opinion, Winston Churchill is one of the few who can do beautiful blackleaf without it looking cartoony. His looks natural and organic.
You'll find bits and pieces of blackleaf in Bergling's books. Also check out Kornbrath's engraving for some nice examples.

 

[mitch]

i've always thought "blackleaf" was much like the scroll shown in Roger's first sample photo, but the leaves & vines were pretty much solid black silhouettes, perhaps with a smattering of white detail or 'shading'? is that called something else?

 

[Marrinan]

Look at the beautiful running leaf to the left of the side plate on the example by Phil Coggan. That's perfection! Fred

 

[atexascowboy2011]

I agree with you Sam and I want to add Phill Coggan to that very short list.