Help, please: teach me to inlay?

[Dani Girl]

I am a bit confused. I thought anealing was heat it up and then let it cool slowly, but then I found a thread about waterboarding that says quench in water or alcohol straight after heating... which seems conflicting, is the heating the bit that does the softening and then it doesn't matter how it cools?

 

[dlilazteca]

i use the board method, when a the wire is to thin, (but as I've been reading and expanding my knowledge a bic lighter can be used) or b i have a spool of thin wire and i dont want to melt the dang thing. When the wire lays flat when heating i push it into the water, no need for alcohol I'm using 24kt gold. You should try it with some silver for example, with practice as soon as you hold the gold and manipulate it you can tell if its dead soft or it needs another run. I think that's something that is learned with practice, so just try it.

Saludos,
Carlos

 

[don hicks]

Fred;
Thanks for posting the link. Very clearly stated and very informative.
Cheers
Don

 

[MexicanEngraver]

what characteristics must have the gold thread, thick, carat etc?

 

[Thierry Duguet]

what characteristics must have the gold thread, thick, carat etc?

I think that one should use the largest possible gauge (larger is smaller) and the highest purity possible.

 

[KCSteve]

I think the general rule is that ferrous metals (iron, steel) you let air cool slowly to anneal and non-ferrous metals you quench to anneal.

 

[matthew.townsley]

Most precious metals you are best to let it cool to what they call "black heat".
At least let the red hot colour go out of the gold before quenching. If you have time, just let it air cool.
However, 24ct gold is going to be the most forgiving as it is not an alloy.

Annealing is letting the grain structure of the metal that has been work hardened go back to a softened (or unworked) state.
It is the heating that softens it, but quenching too quickly can prevent it from completing its work.
Hope that helps.

 

[Dani Girl]

Thanks everyone, I think all my questions have been answered. I look forward to finally making the time to give this a serious go and try all the different methods that have been put up on the forum (as many as I can anyhow)

Just let me give a huge thankyou to all the folk on here who have been so wonderfully kind and have helped me along the way. There are so many incredible people on here.

Thanks everyone

Danae.

 

[Dani Girl]

I've finally got my tools together and had a go. I tried in with a 120 first and then just undercutting into the sidewalls of that with a flat which worked alright for fine silver wire. I have some very massive copper wire too, but I couldn't get it pulling through the drawplate. I tried cutting with a 120 and then into that cut with a flat until i had a reasonably deep groove. I tried using the flat into the side walls to undercut and push the surface up causing that lip. I then after much effort managed to bash the copper down into that. It held ok. I then tried doing the cuts in the bottom of the groove with a flat and tried putting the copper into that... it just pushed them all back down, the copper was hard enough to flatten the steel I was inlaying in. I tried some cold black for steel and cold black for brass,copper, and bronze and I was surprised that they both blackened the steel and the copper and silver. What ways are there of creating more contrast with silver?

I also tried anodizing ti with silver wire in there... it put a black scale or something on the silver, it rubbed off with a rag. What do the pros do with silver inlay, anything?

Thanks everyone.

 

[Jan Hendrik]

I did a test plate a while back where i inlaid fine silver wire into titanium. The two work really well together as Titanium has a greyish base colour and the pure white of the fine silver makes a nice contrast. You can also cut some shading lines in the fine silver to create the illusion of depth. When you anodise the titanium with other metals inlaid into the titanium the anodising process eats away the anodised metals leaving a very unattractive pitted surface (tried this as well). The key would be to very accurately mask off the inlaid areas with some masking fluid like nail varnish or maybe enamel paint, then anodize when dry to prevent the electrolyte coming into contact with the inlaid areas. I have had some success with this, but i am still experimenting with different masking fluids to get the best results. I will start an anodising and engraving combo on a knife i am making in a week or two. I might do some gold and silver inlay as well if inspiration strikes me.

 

[Dani Girl]

Thanks everyone for your help so far. I had a bit of a go today. Ground my hss flat into a knife with only the slightest bit of flat left on the tip, that breaks easy.

Also have a carbaltXD flat/knife cut down to quite thin. If you go reasonably deep with it it seems to be a decent size for the wire although there was a good bit left on the surface of the last line i cut.

My questions for the day

Is anyone willing to post pictures or explainations of their tools used to make undercuts and correct use. (geometry, angles etc) graver steel too...

What's the best way to use a ronald baptiste inlay point. I made one from CarbaltXD and I kept chipping the edges off without raising much of a lip or displacing much metal

I have in the shed 116, 90, flat/knife, r.baptiste inlay, and the otto carter template thing i haven't tried using yet.

 

[Dani Girl]

Here are the pictures of the tools and attempts

 

[Southern Custom]

I'll add one tip on annealing silver. Never heat it to red hot. Draw on the silver with a black sharpie. Heat it till the black disappears and leaves a faint trace image. At this point silver should be dead soft. I quench after it cools for a bit.
And just realized I never tried this technique with fine silver. I suppose it will work the same a sterling.
Layne

 

[Jan Hendrik]

To make the alternating undercuts/raised edges i use M42 gravers. The carbald gravers are too brittle and break continuously. Also you may do the channel cuts with a carbald graver, but i suggest use a slightly steeper face and heel angle. This allows deeper cuts with less heel drag.
Just some advice from another newbie.

 

[Dani Girl]

Thank you Jan. I will try that next.

 

[Dani Girl]

Today's work on a spyderco dragonfly. Silver inlay.

 

[Dani Girl]

I tried to cut the rope with a flat. Had to cut the tapered ends work a 120 (not the best tool. ) then I undercut or shoved some metal around with the Baptiste inlay point. Where the curve was too tight for it I used my flat shoved in straight... pulled out... moved along... again and again. After I finished that I tried to raise teeth in the groove with the flat one way then turned around and went the other way. It's easy to make them too big.

It doesn't take long when you start inlaying to understand how important it is to trim off at the right point so the silver can get into the groove... you can't mash it down the. Trim it off...

I like using the brass punch... much less damage to surrounding areas. Does anyone use a brass flat graver to trim it off... ?

Does anyone know good contrast treatments and or how to's?

 

[SamW]

That doesn't look like it needs more contrast as is.

I have on occasion used spring brass for a trimming/shaping chisel on gold inlays when I didn't want to cause any marring on the surrounding steel but it requires very frequent re-sharpening of the tool. This was done primarily when inlaying into electroless nickel plated parts. The nickel would plate right over the gold and using a stop off varnish on gold prior to plating is difficult to get that fine line separation between gold and background. Actually, I didn't like either method and finally limited engravings that were to be plated to steel work only.

 

[Dani Girl]

It's real easy to nick the 'background' metal with the flat if you used that to trim down the inlay before stoning/sanding. The brass knife would cure that... but I'd have to try it to see if the ire of resharpening it constantly would outweigh the chance of nicking the underlying metal or being unable to stone or sand.

Thank you SamW

 

[TallGary]

It's real easy to nick the 'background' metal with the flat if you used that to trim down the inlay before stoning/sanding. The brass knife would cure that... but I'd have to try it to see if the ire of resharpening it constantly would outweigh the chance of nicking the underlying metal or being unable to stone or sand.

Thank you SamW

When in doubt, try searching the forum for clues:
http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?3810-Gold-inlay-help-wanted
http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?10217-working-on-inlays
Lots of goodies in the threads. I have seen Rex with his penny scraper in action -- wow!

Regards,