Newbie Hand Push Progress Thread

[canadianwuff]

Hi everyone!
I hope the more experienced folk won't mind a newbie thread to keep track of progress over time.

I finally got my vise on Tuesday, and have spent the last few nights push engraving straight lines as suggested in The Jewelry Engraver's Manual.

The first two photos are just exploring the graver, and the next two follows the book's suggestion to cut the lines are finely as possible. (I'm using Steve Lindsay's 116 template to sharpen a M42 graver)

 

[Chujybear]

certain satisfaction to a pattern like that.
im gonna say, decent consistency for a first venture
try back cutting your lines

 

[Victor Lederman]

Try to keep your eye not on the tip of the graver,but on the line ahead on it.Just like driving a car you dont look on the front-fender.

 

[John P. Anderson]

Nice work and I'm glad to see another push graver getting their start.

You might find the 116 degree a bit too wide for push graving when you get to curves. I use a narrow V of about 55 or 60 degree and a flat which has two 90 degree corners. The Lindsay 70 V Bulino is closest to what I use but it would need a bit of heel.

I find the flat very versatile and the narrow V for detail and cutting in my pattern.

 

[JJ Roberts]

My all time favorite push graver is the onglette for fine detail when engraving animals & birds on sporting arms,also sharp the onglette by hand. J.J.

 

[silverchip]

I am impressed that you have decided to start with non power assisted engraving, that is the way a lot of us dinosaurs got going before GRS existed!!!!!!

 

[John P. Anderson]

My narrow V is onglette shape. I hand sharpen. It a fine tip and a few stroke is all it takes from a sharp V to onglette. Heel is also just a couple four strokes and depending on what I'm cutting I like everything from no heel to a pronounced heel.

No heel has plenty of bite but is fragile. More heel, less bite.

 

[Bluetickhound]

Looks great! I got my vise and gravers yesterday and have been getting started also. I have the GRS Adjustable handles (the red, yellow and blue set) and some 90 degree Glensteel gravers. My practice plates are 2x2 copper that I cut from some sheets I got at a local craft store. In the next few days I'll post a picture of my first attempts. So far I'm somewhat surprised that all I can get out of my efforts is very, VERY thin lines. The copper seems soft enough but I can't really get much depth out of the cuts. Right now it's not an issue as I need to learn to crawl before walking... Looking forward to seeing more updates!

 

[monk]

the line-to-line proximity is really good. your cuts aren't real consistent, but first time outta the gate, i'd say is real good. now, try the same thing, only use curved lines.

 

[JJ Roberts]

I like a 40 degree face and 15 degree heel on my onglette's.We dinosaur's had to sharpen our tools by hand with sharping stones there was no power hone at that time and the only power assist was the Graver Meister. J.J.

 

[Dave London]

Blue tick
Anneal the copper plates MTC

 

[canadianwuff]

Hi everyone!
I'm very chuffed to see the responses. Thank you so much for your support and suggestions! The onglette looks like a favourite of many masters, I will definitely pick up one of those templates the next time I get more supplies.

The narrowest template I've got is the 96v detailing template, I'll sharpen one of those over the next few days!

 

[silverchip]

I like a 40 degree face and 15 degree heel on my onglette's.We dinosaur's had to sharpen our tools by hand with sharping stones there was no power hone at that time and the only power assist was the Graver Meister. J.J.

No templates or fixtures either!!!!

 

[Bluetickhound]

Well... After embarrassing myself and bringing all manner of shame on my family for the better part of a Saturday, I'll be putting away the gravers and sticking to the sketching pad until I get a proper sharpening system. I tried to use the gravers out of the box and found out quickly they aren't ready to use that way... soooooo, I tried to put a bit of lift (by hand) in one and it worked a bit better but since I haven't got either a scope or an Optivisor the only way to tell if I'm doing a decent job is if the graver doesn't pull to one side or the other... The good news is that with all the skidding and slipping going on my right hand (I'm left handed) remains unstabbed...

The bottom line? Gotta get some more tools. Hand push is challenging enough as it is, why make it more so by working with naked eyes and cattywhompus gravers...

 

[Bluetickhound]

Blue tick
Anneal the copper plates MTC

Just saw this... Will do. I know it'll help the actual graving, but starting with properly sharpened gravers and good vision will help more! Thanks for the tip!!

 

[canadianwuff]

Just sharpened a new 96v graver. This one is in HSS though, not M42. I don't think it can cut as wide as the 116v graver, but I feel that it has alot more depth and feel to the cuts.

Here's a photo just randomly carving all over the copper.

Bluetickhound, I think once you get the an improved way to sharpen your gravers, you'll probably be able to get a good range from thin to thick lines! For the moment I'm using an optivisor with the DA-4 2x lenses.

 

[Bluetickhound]

Thanks to the magic of the Buy/Sell tab, I now have a Powerhone with accessories coming my way. I'll be spending some coin with the fine folks at GRS this week also to beef up my arsenal with an Optivisor and an expanded arrangement of gravers.

 

[Crazy Horse]

If you search the "TIPS" thread you'll find ways to hand sharpen Hand Push gravers. It's really very simple and it works.
You don't really need special tools and guys like Barry and Sam and countless other engravers have been using it for ages.

http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?11322-Graver-heeling-method-by-Barry-Lee-Hands

 

[diandwill]

If you search the "TIPS" thread you'll find ways to hand sharpen Hand Push gravers. It's really very simple and it works.
You don't really need special tools and guys like Barry and Sam and countless other engravers have been using it for ages.

http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?11322-Graver-heeling-method-by-Barry-Lee-Hands

This is true, BUT...to obtain immediate and repeatable correct angles, in a timely fashion, some sort of sharpening jig/template and hone is extremely advantageous. It can be done by hand, and it can take a year or more to get the same results, on a hit or miss basis, as a template and power hone.

To the purists I say, I live 20 miles from my store. I could be a purist and walk both ways, I could ride a horse, a bicycle and make it in a few hours, or I can drive and make it in 1/2 hour. I choose the modern way.

As a jeweler, I tried hand push/hand sharpening for 15 years. My wife has the 1 piece that wasn't melted as scrap, a poorly done initial pendant. I then took a GRS course from Sam, and hit the ground running. I bought a gravermax, powerhone with dual angle and a scope, and have been an engraver since. I am not a master, I don't shade like a master, but I do quality work and get paid to do so. It is your choice.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Very true, and not to be argumentative, but without air assist the template sharpened gravers do not cut as smoothly as does the simple method in the TIPS. Also, A onglet (or Fish Belly gravers as some engravers call it) are very easy to hand sharpen and work very well.

It is my belief and experience that basic hand sharpening methods, proven for over many, many decades will be much easier for a novice to attain reasonably good results than template sharpened gravers.

Sam, please post your hand sharpening tip.