Difficult placement of scrolls. Please help!

[Jan Hendrik]

I am having some difficulty deciding on the size and placement of my scrolls at the front of this knife scale. This is the best I could come up with so far. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jan

At the moment it looks like you have four separate areas. Front bottom scroll all by itself. Top front scrolls, spider web and back scrolls.

Why not have the scrolls morphing out of the spider web..........this may, or may not, involve moving the web to the front or back of the knife.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Jan Hendrik]

Hi Jan

At the moment it looks like you have four separate areas. Front bottom scroll all by itself. Top front scrolls, spider web and back scrolls.

Why not have the scrolls morphing out of the spider web..........this may, or may not, involve moving the web to the front or back of the knife.

Cheers
Andrew

Hi, Andrew! The idea behind this was to have it look as if the spider web is suspended from the scrolls if that makes any sense. I have a bit of a hard time linking the front bottom scroll to the top front scrolls as the gap is so small. I am happy with the scroll configuration at the back. Maybe I can move the spider web further back to open more surface area for the front scrolls?

 

[Andrew Biggs]

The idea behind this was to have it look as if the spider web is suspended from the scrolls if that makes any sense

Yes, that works as well...........but then you have to think about how spider webs are suspended between objects.

For instance.......should the front scrolls be turned around so the web has something to suspend from?

The back scrolls have some pretty large gaps that are going to be difficult to fill and the very back scroll come straight out from the border at an almost 90 degree angle.....................so all of that needs a bit of rethinking as well.

You also have two holes in the knife outside of the spiders web. Can they be utilised to use as your scroll origin?

Drawings evolve especially this type of design.......don't get stuck on one particular thing. Explore your options

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Jan Hendrik]

Thanks Andrew.
I will keep drawing. It is always good to get input from someone else to get a better perspective on what you are doing.

 

[Crossbolt]

Well, at the risk of asking a heretical question, does it have to have scrolls? I can see a stunning web design without them. Might the use of one "style " be more powerful?
Just a thought.
Jeremy

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Heresy...........you should be excommunicated and your land salted!!!

I can't answer for Jan as it's his design

However my own personal thoughts are that scroll is a wonderful medium to carry a lot of design features. It can be the design all by itself or make up parts of the design. And then there are the multitude of scroll variations ranging from very simple to complex. And within those scrolls you can have anything like leaves, beer cans, bananas, grotesques or anything you want.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Jan Hendrik]

Well, at the risk of asking a heretical question, does it have to have scrolls? I can see a stunning web design without them. Might the use of one "style " be more powerful?
Just a thought.
Jeremy

Initially the plan was to just engrave the spider with the web. However there were such large empty spaces left on the handle that it looked "empty". Scrolls was my logical conclusion to solve this dilemma.

 

[Jan Hendrik]

Maybe somewhat of an improvement?

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jan

A definite improvement .........With the back scrolls you still have a few problem areas with gaps between scrolls and the two scrolls that form the heart shape doesn't work.

The front doesn't do it either and needs redrawing as the scrolls just don't work the way you have them.

A very useful tool is the thumbnail sketch. A thumbnail sketch is a lot of small drawings of the knife outline. You then do some very quick scroll layouts to see what works and what doesn't. The spider web could just be an oval. The whole idea is to flesh out options and develop ideas.

Just keep at it and you will come up with something. The golden rule is.......if it doesn't look right........then it isn't

Cheers
Andrew

 

[davidshe]

Hi Jan - here is my nickels worth... ok, maybe two cents worth...

I would not interrupt the borders on top and bottom of the knife with the web. I would then die the ends of each strand of the web into the top border, bottom border and also into the scrolls. Sort of like the top web dies into the top of the knife as it is now. But do that all around. You might want to add your leaves etc to the scrolls first and then die the web ends into the leaves and or backbones of the scroll work. Then the web might look like the spider really did spin that web right into your design! Of course this idea may or may not look good after you sketch it but may be worth a try

 

[John B.]

Jan, That is looking much better, keep at it. Interesting design.
The scroll at the bottom front coming off the large circle is flowing the wrong way. Try rotating it in the other direction.
And have a try by rotating both bottom scrolls at the back of the knife in the same direction as the one in the bottom corner.
it's OK to interrupt the backbone of the second scroll where it passes through the pin hole.

 

[Big-Un]

Just a note to consider; different spiders weave different type webs. Study some and then determine what you wish to achieve. Your web seems disorganized and spiders are definitely organized weavers. I'm also of the opinion that scrolls can and should be utilized as a basic element so I believe with some more thought you'll come up with a viable design.

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

It would probably be easiest to draw your scroll design then hang the web from the scrolls, (I have not read all comments so forgive me if this is a repeat) anyway here is a rough up of how you could handle the area.

 

[Jan Hendrik]

Just a note to consider; different spiders weave different type webs. Study some and then determine what you wish to achieve. Your web seems disorganized and spiders are definitely organized weavers. I'm also of the opinion that scrolls can and should be utilized as a basic element so I believe with some more thought you'll come up with a viable design.

The spider that I have here is a Golden Orb Weaver spider and this is how they spin their webs. It is endemic to Southern Africa. I will keep drawing different scroll configurations and move things around a bit. This is a big challenge for me.

 

[Jan Hendrik]

It would probably be easiest to draw your scroll design then hang the web from the scrolls, (I have not read all comments so forgive me if this is a repeat) anyway here is a rough up of how you could handle the area.

You make it look so easy Brian!! Thanks for the input. I will see what I can come up with. Your sketch makes a lot more sense than mine up to now.

 

[Jan Hendrik]

This is what I came up with after the help of the forum members. I plan to inlay the scroll spines with gold. The leaf elements will be drawn in as soon as I am satisfied with the layout of the scroll backbones. What do you guys think?

 

[Omar Haltam]

looks much more pleasing to me now, I like this the best so far

 

[Big-Un]

The left scroll fits perfectly, with the web coming from a larger base, the right side has the scrolls going "into" the web, which to me is a little awkward. It's coming around though, keep up the good work.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Much better

You have one problem area on the back part.........the big gap at the top of the scroll where there are two scrolls coming off from it. (The gap between the border and the top of the scroll.

That could be remedied by bringing that scroll all the way up to the border line.

I am curious about one thing........why have the spider upside down?

Cheers
Andrew