Another home made engraving machine

[Brian Marshall]

From the looks of what these tools are capable of doing, and the number of hits on this thread - it looks to me like there will very shortly either be a new tool vendor or a rapid price reduction from one of the manufacturers...

Also a possible market for DIY kits and/or detailed instructions?

It's well past time for new ideas, new directions and more reasonable prices for beginners.


Brian

 

[pLM]

MoldyJim,
....

PLM,

I think your engraving looks great! Very smooth.

I am curious what role the pedal plays in your setup. Since its an electric pedal does that mean it controls the rpm in addition to your spm regulator? Do you set a max spm with the regulator and use the pedal to go from 0 to limit?
...

JW

Indeed my friend. I dont set up max SPM but yeah pedal controls from 0 to limit. I can go even with a single stroke just like Enset does.

 

[dogcatcher]

From the looks of what these tools are capable of doing, and the number of hits on this thread - it looks to me like there will very shortly either be a new tool vendor or a rapid price reduction from one of the manufacturers...

Also a possible market for DIY kits and/or detailed instructions?

It's well past time for new ideas, new directions and more reasonable prices for beginners.


Brian

I see it as a boon to the "hobby artists" that want to try to engrave. If they can start at a "starving artists" level price on beginner quality tooling, more will enter the field as hobbyists. The professional will opt for the professional grade machines. Like the professional mechanic buys Snap On and the shade tree mechanic buys what he can afford.

I am 69 years old, my interest in engraving is as a hobby, I have ben whittling and woodcarving for decades, I started here to get ideas about shading techniques on low relief carving. But I have evolved to wanting to know more about engraving. I also make duck calls, the brass bands are "screaming" at me to engrave them. Now I need a better system, but cannot justify the money for a professional set, so one day it will be trip to Harbor Freight for a automatic punch and 12 volt compressor.

My money also says the professional in some of you will attempt to make one of these. Your curiosity will get to you, and throwing a few dollars at Harbor Freight will solve that curiosity. Some of you will also "waste" hours playing with it trying to bring it to the next level.

 

[Brian Marshall]

"Some of you will also "waste" hours playing with it trying to bring it to the next level."

You can never waste your time - IF you learn something useful...


Brian

 

[dogcatcher]

"Some of you will also "waste" hours playing with it trying to bring it to the next level."

You can never waste your time - IF you learn something useful...


Brian

The reason for the quotes, and making one will be a learning tool for everyone from the beginner to the professional.

The auto center punch that Moldyjim used for his handpieces are on sale at Harbor Freight for $3.99. http://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html

 

[MoldyJim]

Quick note, some of the newer HF centerpunches have left hand threads, just an fyi.
Unscrew both ends, throw out the middle, and pretty much there.
If y'all want, I could do some more detailed pics of the hand piece.

 

[MoldyJim]

Jan-William,
Thanks, I like engraving on the Kershaw knives, good knives, easy to engrave and the colors make for great display.
Sold more than a few to the ladies.
As to simplicity, that is my middle name....
Wait, that don't sound right...

 

[MoldyJim]

I really like the nice clean setup Elvis started this thread with.
I just cobbled together some bits I had, his looks like he put some thought into his.

 

[dogcatcher]

Quick note, some of the newer HF centerpunches have left hand threads, just an fyi.
Unscrew both ends, throw out the middle, and pretty much there.
If y'all want, I could do some more detailed pics of the hand piece.

I for one would love to see more pics of the construction of the handpiece. My plan is to first make one for miniature carving, the reciprocating Wecheer handpiece works, but I see this as a better option than the stiffer flex shaft.

 

[MoldyJim]

I have a Wecheer handpiece, it's good for larger pieces, not so much for detail wood carving.
I'll see about making some wood chisels for the handpiece.
Probably a good time to start a new post.

 

[Elvis]

New pedal

Man, I am really amazed at the diversity and innovation I see in this thread and out there on YouTube. Jim, I really like your set up – you just can’t get much more basic without going to hammer and chisel. Thanks to all for the input and interest. Glad to know I am not the only crazed being out there piddling around in the shop. And, sharing information will only lead to more and better innovation.
I finally made a foot pedal this weekend based on Nejc’s excellent, innovative design (see attached pics). Nejc thanks for sharing this on YouTube. I had experimented with cutting the air flow off simply by squeezing the air tube which worked fine but I can’t help but think it’s got to put some kind of strain on the compressor when the tube is squeezed shut. Nejc’s pedal design does the opposite by allowing air to freely flow when the hand piece is idle putting no pressure on the compressor – and, to me, seems like a better way to go (see his video’s on YouTube for instructions and a more in-depth explanation on how his pedal works).
As Moldy Jim explains in his previous post, there are three ways to regulate hand piece impact for the DIY machines: restrict air flow as illustrated in several pedal videos that Shaun Hughes has posted on YouTube, use Nejc’s free air flow pedal design, or regulate the rpms of the compressor – and I think all are viable options. As Jim points out the first two method are somewhat limited in range when it comes to pressing the pedal. That is, it’s difficult to get a smooth transition from slow to fast simply because there is such a small range of pedal motion that actually affects the air flow. The rpm method (as regulated electronically such as with a sewing machine pedal) will certainly work although it seems (and I am not speaking from experience here) that starting at low rpms would be make the hand piece a bit “jerkier “during start up than the former two methods which increase impact starting with a higher, set rpm.
Just from messing around with the pedal I made, I have to say it works pretty well. You have to be delicate and cognitive with your foot position to reach and hold those low and mid-level impact speeds. This was somewhat difficult for me since my feeble brain can rarely do two things at once - but it can be done. I think with a little practice, this will be the path that I follow.
I also made another hand piece on the lathe (see attached pics). This one is a bit beefier than the first one. I made the cylinder out of a piece of 3/8 inch black pipe. This was a mistake as the pipe has a linear weld down its length which is harder than the rest of the pipe making boring a round cylinder difficult – but I got it to work after a bit of cursing. Rather than adapting the nose for a quick change tool holder, I simply made a solid nose piece that is drilled out to accept a 1/8 inch square graver (1/8 inch square M42 lathe bits make good cheap gravers). The nose piece is not removable and is pinned to the cylinder. The piston hits the back of the nose piece transferring the inertia to the graver. I also increased the length of the cylinder for greater stroke adjustment. The piston is brass and is heavier than the heaviest piston in my first hand piece. The solid nose piece also adds weight to the hand piece which I think helps with inertia. I like it better as it is able to cut deeper broader lines with a little less effort.
This whole pneumatic thing has been quite a learning curve for me – and I am not quite used to it. I still have much more control and speed using the hammer and chisel - but I can certainly see the potential – especially for fine work that I would normally be trying to do using push gravers. I definitely intend to explore it further. So, my next project will be a ball vise. I am used to standing up while engraving pieces that are in a relatively fixed position – generally by walking around the piece. This is pretty easy when using the hammer and chisel but it’s more difficult to get smooth curves when push engraving – and as I have found, with the pneumatic gravers that I have made. I know, I should just bite the bullet and buy a good ball vise – but I can’t do that. I have too many ideas cooking in my head, too much scrap metal lying around the shop, and an idle lathe and mill. It’s probably a good thing I don’t have to make a living engraving – I would never get any done! Elvis

 

[John B.]

Elvis, glad to see you having fun making yourself some engraving tools. Now you need a rotary vise for smooth cutting.
If you look in the archives I have a post about making a rotary vise out of 2 inch thinwall steel tubing using wheel bearings.
You may also find another of my old posts about making a ball vise out of a thrift store bowling ball. But I bet you have your own ideas.
Years ago, when teaching I had a student with no leg use. This person could not use the foot pedal on my old Gravermiester.
We attached a piece of new, clean hose in place of the foot pedal hose and they held it in their mouth.
By biting down on the hose the student had very good control of the machine. Kinda like your hose pinching foot pedal.
Where there is a will there is a way.

 

[dogcatcher]

Elvis, the old style wood clamps have the double screws in them that have the right and left handed threads. Makes it easy for self centering vises. Grizzly tools version https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G806...rd_wg=tOCje&psc=1&refRID=TYCBJWPAX1W25GVWVXWR

The Grizzly version has or had the "nut" that could easily removed from the wood.

Several years ago I scavenged those parts to make a self centering vise for my drill press. In short I sort of made a steel vise out of wood vise parts.

 

[MoldyJim]

When buying steel tubing for a handpiece or anything that needs a good internal bore, ask for DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) tubing.
The bore is round, close tolerance and smooth, slight price increase but worth it.

I have an older Rex ball vise, Bought an Amazon graver's vise on line. Lucked out and got a good one for $139 with free shipping.

But!
I also made 2 larger ball vise bases out of 8" stainless steel bowls filled with lead/solder scrap steel, steel shot.
One has dual bearings, shaft etc. On that one I can take the vise off the Rex and set it on top.
The other I just covered with a steel plate and mounted a lazy susan bearing and another plate to that.
I Made a vise using the screw from one of the wood clamps from Harbor freight, mounted it to a steel plate that has two Magswitch units.
I can slide the vise around to center it like a fancy leverlock ball.
http://www.rockler.com/magswitch-ma...PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CLnd5sLBz9MCFc5hfgodi7AJAQ
Both balls weight around 30 lbs.

But...
I like the idea of the turntable/large radius ball with the top of the vise on the radius center for microscope use.
The other day I found a perfect solution, cheap, available, and low profile.
I'm working on the design, once I get it figured out I'll try posting it.


Other vise options would be to use a self centering doweling jig or the screws from one to make a vise.
Or buy on of the hand held engraving vises and mount it to a bowling ball.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/181877...fce868b5beb4&gclid=CIDclNPDz9MCFRBEfgodA1MB8g

 

[MoldyJim]

I have some rotary air tools, dental drills, etc that work off a foot pedal made from an air nozzle.
Thanks mounted the nozzle in a block, with the inlet connector sticking out, the outlet goes to the tool.
A hinged plate presses on the lever to operate the valve.
Really crude, but works well.

 

[jan-willem]

Elvis,

Your foot pedal looks quite nice. I guess I'll have to follow a similar route. Of course you could go completely nuts and fabricate a pedal like this Russian toolmaker has done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT0g7c1PRHE

Thread on chipmaker.ru with photo's and drawings. http://www.chipmaker.ru/topic/128935/page__fromsearch__1

It looks to me like he modded a pressure regulator! :clapping:

I must admit I am a little jealous when I hear you talking about your own lathe. How great it must be to be able to experiment like you do. Can't wait to see what you come up with for the ball vise!

On your latest graver version; I would assume the mass of the solid nosepiece would work against you, not for you. Since you smack a piston of fixed weight against an object of "higher" mass it would take more energy to make it move into your workpiece and engrave. Since its all fixed more of the vibrations would probably transfer to your hand too. Then again, I am just theorycrafting here :thinking:

Since I will have to have my handpiece made at a metal shop I've been drawing up a design based on stuff I found online. I have been using Fusion360. Its free for non commercial use. We have come a long way since the 2d drawing of autocad let me tell you that! Last time I did technical drawings 3d was still in its infancy. I am having an absolute blast of a time. :clapping: Here is a public link for the design so far: http://a360.co/2pMfQnn (still unfinished)

It will already allow you to download the model in various formats, including fusion360 so you can use it as is or tweak it. When its actually done ill generate some 2d drawings and add dimensions as well.

I have no idea how many of you are into CAD. But for the one's that know what I am talking about I am more then happy to open the actual project up for anyone to download dimensioned drawings and possible contribute with improvements, suggestions or designs of your own. Ill probably throw a rough design for the footpedal in there as well.


Moldyjim,

Seems the beast is out. So many tips and good advice. I assume an air nozzle is equivalent to an air gun? Where you squeeze the pistol grip to release air? If that works that is very good to know, it may allow us to build pedals with a little bit more range.

 

[MoldyJim]

Yep, air gun.
Cheapo, squeeze the lever.
I think it would work for either adding back pressure or pressure release on the air side.
I tried to add pics from my phone, but buttons too small ;-{}
I'll try again tonight.

 

[MoldyJim]

Here is the air gun foot pedal.

 

[MoldyJim]

Foot pedal

 

[stick]

Necj,

I had no idea the parrot was done without power assist. I really know little to nothing about bulino and its requirements. Makes it all the more amazing.

I was confused about the manner in which you control your machine until I went back over your video's and found the foot pedal. Now I understand! That makes better sense to me than just choking the airflow directly to the hand tool. Awesome!

I am also happy to hear the compressor is tough enough and the tubing stays in place. I saw the video on your custom made handpiece. Very nice. I already researched some metalshops near me and I think it should be possible to have one made if the knockoff should fail. Do you mind sharing dimensions, tolerances, surface treatment of your handpiece design with me?

I agree with you on the investment when compared to the proffesional tools. Thankyou very much for answering my questions. With the knowledge shared by Shaun, you, Elvis and others I am confident I can build one myself and will be ordering the parts this afternoon.


Elvis,

Thanks for getting back to me! I think the numbers just show the value of the pot from 0-100. as you said its just handy as a comparative reference. I did check out Necj's pedal and I agree that seems to be the best solution. With a pedal setup such as that the system will never be fully constricted but its good to know that even with fully closed tubes the system has more then enough power to deal with it without things breaking badly. That is actually important to me so I appreciate this feedback greatly.

I think your work looks gorgeous. I am personally a bit of a stickler when it comes to "knowing" about styles and rules. Hence why I am the opposite in my approach. I watch dvd's and books before I even attempt a full decoration. While its part of who I am and i've come to accept it I am often a little jealous of the people who just go with the flow and have the guts to freehand like you. I am an analytical person by nature and its easy for me to fall into the trap of reading just a little more, doing a little more research, or practicing a specific part of a design instead of just drawing. I definately don't think less of your art because you are approaching it more freely.

Thanks again. I hope to have build my own engraver soon!


MoldyJim,

It seems I jumped the gun as well. I was afraid your and Monk's reply would smother the thread instead of keeping the discussion going so I could make up my mind on whether to undertake this DIY project or not.

I clearly misinterpreted your reply. I am sorry for the confusion caused and am glad you did not take offense. I am also encouraged by hearing we got another "hobby" engraver with their own DIY engraving setup.

I have decided to purchase the parts and assemble one myself. Hopefully I can do more than talk about engraving soon and I look forward to sharing my first practice plates with you all!

Kind regards,

JW

Sorry for late answer. I was out of town for some days. Please send me the email and write it in the video comments like others did and i will send you the drawings of the dandpiece ASAP.