Help, please: Winchester Engraving

[Paul Gordon]

I have a Winchester rifle that has an extraordinary engraving that former Winchester master engraver Pauline M. does not recognize. This rifle was previously owned by Audey Murphy.

 

[Dave London]

If you have proof of that previous owner, it would be worth more than the engraving MTC

 

[SamW]

Looks very Germanic to me.

 

[capece rocco]

hello ,you carbine seem to be engraved by Rene Delcour from Belgium
bye Rocco

 

[Roger Bleile]

I'm not sure I agree with Rocco on this one. Please post a well lit and focused, high resolution image of the scroll work and I may be able to tell you more. I don't need to see the whole gun in one picture. The scrollwork is like the engraver's fingerprint. From the current photos, I don't know how anyone can even guess at the engraver's identity.

 

[Paul Gordon]

Thanks Dave, I am attempting to get better provenance to Audie Murphy, you are correct the direct link would enhance the value considerably.

 

[Paul Gordon]

Hello Roger: Thanks for your reply and interest. I have just received the item in my hands and have taken a couple of quick photo's which are attached.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Roger
You would know better than me, but heres a wild guess
Could this be Joe Fugger? Wild assumption is thst it came out of the Griffen and howe shop in the late 50's and the style does remind me of Fugger

 

[John B.]

hello ,you carbine seem to be engraved by Rene Delcour from Belgium
bye Rocco

Rocco,
Thank you but the reason I don't think it is by Rene is the way the ends of the inlaid lines and the centers of the scroll are finished.
In most of the Belgium engraving and much of Rene's work these ends are finished with a small gold ball.
This could be a Pachmier (spelling) shop engraving job as a lot of his contract work had a Germanic look.
Another possible thought is the Alvin White shop.

 

[capece rocco]

hello ,now I see the gun closer ,I'm sure is not Delcour,
yes John the gold inlay finish with a ball
bye Rocco

 

[Roger Bleile]

Paul,

I'm sorry to say that your pictures do not help me determine the engraver. The scrollwork is either too dark or faded out and insufficiently focused. If you are still interested in my assessment just take a close up of the scrollwork on either side of the scene. I understand that it is difficult to take a good photo of a blued, engraved gun, especially if you are using a telephone to take the picture.

Below is the kind of picture I need.

 

[fegarex]

I agree with Mr. John.
Pachmayr (sp) did a lot of similar guns.

 

[Paul Gordon]

I have put these photo's out to a couple of "experts", who suggest the work may be that of A. Bee or G Cargnell........any thoughts on those suggestions?

 

[Paul Gordon]

Hello Roger, thanks for putting up with my amateur phone pic's, I will have my expert try for some better ones tomorrow.
Paul

 

[John B.]

Quote.I have put these photo's out to a couple of "experts", who suggest the work may be that of A. Bee or G Cargnell........any thoughts on those suggestions?

The work does not look like anything from Angelo Bee or Gino Cargnell or any of the other Belgium trained engravers.
The scroll and leaf design are nothing like their's and their gold line work ends and center of scrolls are finished with a small gold ball as I said above.
Gino has passed on sadly but Angelo is still actively engraving and you can contact him for verification.
He is in Chatsworth. CA.
The engraving on the model 94 is Germanic style, not Liege Belgium style.

 

[SamW]

John, Pachmayr seems a good guess...someone like Claus Willig or his father?

 

[John B.]

John, Pachmayr seems a good guess...someone like Claus Willig of his father?

Sam, that would be my best guess too.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Gee Guys Im still thinking maybe Joe Fugger with Griffen and Howe

 

[John B.]

You could be right Marty.
Your guess is as good as (and maybe better) than mine.
The serial number may give a clue.
If it's an older gun anything goes as far as who engraved it.
Could it also be Jack P. or Arnold G. ?? It's well done.
But a later gun could eliminate some of these possibilities.
A lot of guns were engraved in Germany for troops stationed stationed there, as you know.

 

[JJ Roberts]

I looked at this Winchester and it looks like the engraving of a German women gun engraver who lived in up state N.Y. but can't remember her name. J.J.