Question: I want to cut deeper

[Choppers_rule]

I'm still very green about engraving & feel really blessed by God that people are willing to pay me to engrave on their stuff.
I use the Lindsay Classic with over 71 psi to engrave the harley dash below. However, I still feel the cut needs to be deeper.

Will getting the Nitro G20 will cut a lot deeper & faster than the Classic with the same heel size? Thank you

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[Andrew Biggs]

The short answer is probably.........no.

Disclaimer........I have never used the Nitro G20 but have a Magnum handpiece which is similar in so much as it is heavier and hits harder.

The metal you are engraving, the graver shape, geometry, the graver material, angle of attack, technique and vibration are the main factors that determine your initial depth of cut.

Hitting a graver harder means that you will probably break the points a lot quicker depending on the metal you are engraving. I don't know how hard motorcycle parts are.

If you want to go deeper then that may require several sweeps of the graver over the same line. Trying to do it in one cut means the pressure on your graver tip becomes huge. A bit like trying to dig a 6ft hole with one shovel stroke.

If the motorcycle parts vibrate a small amount then by hitting harder you are creating more bounce.

A wider graver (e.g. 120) will give you a stronger point but a wider cut which is not always desirable for what you are doing (and sometimes it is)

An onglete provides a stronger point with a relatively narrow graver face. This will get you really deep without the very wide cut.

I would perhaps try technique over tool.............if that doesn't work, then try the tool.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Donny]

I haven't tried a G20 yet...It stands to reason that it would on the aluminum parts...I would try your hand at hammer and chisel for hogging out the background...for the shading and details you might try double cutting each pass. It will save you some coin. have you tried using a NSK Presto or the like for background removal??

Hammer and chisel used in the video below is very effective. And faster than you think....

https://vimeo.com/29385217


Donny

 

[Choppers_rule]

Thank you for the valuable info Andrew! I'm using a Ray Cover sharpening template for my Lyndsay Classic, I believe it's a 45 degree face/ square graver& a GRS CMax graver. Yes..the big motorcycle parts vibrate a lot. I'm trying to cut deep in one pass because I want to save my customers money by spending less time. As you all here probably already know that the majority of the biker community do not appreciate the engraving art, so I'm trying to do less time so it's more affordable. However, I eventually want to engrave guns, knives, and jewelry as time permitted. I will try the 120 graver & onglete in the future to see how they will perform.
If the Nitro G20 will not help me cut deeper in one pass & faster, then I will not spend the money for it. Denny

 

[Choppers_rule]

Donny,
I thought hammer & chisel would take much more time then using the pneumatic tool?
I have not tried the rotary tool for background removal. I've been using the flat graver on my Lindsay classic for background removal. If the hammer & chisel can cut deeper in one pass than using the air graver, I'm willing to learn how to use it.

 

[Big-Un]

Don't know why you want to go deeper, it looks fine to me.

Bill

 

[Donny]

Donny,
I thought hammer & chisel would take much more time then using the pneumatic tool?
I have not tried the rotary tool for background removal. I've been using the flat graver on my Lindsay classic for background removal. If the hammer & chisel can cut deeper in one pass than using the air graver, I'm willing to learn how to use it.

On big things like primary covers and the like I found H&C was faster for me than my L. Classic. I just didn't feel it was the right tool for the job. Kinda like using a humming bird for Falconry I gave up on the motorcycle scene, except for some specialty item for some local clubs. Far to many riders out their willing to pay 4K for a paint job but not 250.00 for a hand engraved horn cover. BUT I very much wish you well in the biker world....

Donny

I think there is a video

 

[tsterling]

I have both the Lindsay Classic and Nitro G20. Much of my work is sculptural in nature, so I need very deep cuts, especially around the outsides so the background is deep. I do find the Nitro will cut deeper than the Classic in one pass. I've found this to be true so far in copper, shibuichi, bronze, titanium (both CP/Grade 2 and especially 6AlV4), and various steels, including high carbon. The Nitro is also my primary "punch" sculpting device, and is easier/quicker to forge the sculpted surfaces I typically do.

What Andrew said about graver points still holds true, though. More power = more stress on the point, so your graver control and technique better be pretty good. Wider points last longer.

I'm assuming your dash is aluminum? If so, I think the Lindsay Nitro G20 might be your answer. It should be able to plow right through aluminum.

Best of luck!

Tom

Edit: Oh, and the Nitro is also my primary stippler, as well...It's a foot control (my classic is Palm Control) and is much easier to hold like a pencil for stippling. Easier on my hand.

 

[highveldt]

Chopper;

American machinist craftsmen learned some number of years ago that WD-40 is a very good lubricant for cutting aluminum. I have used WD-40 for engraving aluminum and I find it excellent.

Steve

 

[monk]

did you know , the correct application of paints or other colorants can create an illusion of depth where little is actually present ?

 

[Choppers_rule]

Based on all the replies here, I've decided not to purchase the Nitro G20 if it will not make my job a lot faster. I'll keep using my Classic with tungsten piston & just do more passes if I need it deeper.
Thank you everyone!

 

[Brian Marshall]

WD40 = Water Displacement formula #40


While it has been flogged for many years as a lubricant - it was never designed for that purpose. Greed rules.

And if you have an apprentice who knows no better than to spray it into the tiny ball bearings of a pantograph machine...

You will find that those bearings no longer function after a year or so. Stuff turns into a yellowish lacquer that is VERY difficult to remove.


He's lucky he was long gone by the time I discovered it.


Brian

 

[Jay_how_209]

Based on all the replies here, I've decided not to purchase the Nitro G20 if it will not make my job a lot faster. I'll keep using my Classic with tungsten piston & just do more passes if I need it deeper.
Thank you everyone!

If the Nitro will dig much deeper than the GRS tools. Gonto airgraver.com and email Steve for videos. Theres even vids on YOU TUBE. Its a power house. Its adjustable and will straight up dig trenches, quick too.

 

[mitch]

If the Nitro will dig much deeper than the GRS tools. Gonto airgraver.com and email Steve for videos. Theres even vids on YOU TUBE. Its a power house. Its adjustable and will straight up dig trenches, quick too.

yeah, but as Andrew spelled out a few years ago, merely having a more powerful handpiece is only part of the equation. the two main factors being how rock solid you can hold the workpiece and graver geometry & durability. bottom line, being able to actually apply that much horsepower in very many real world engraving situations comes down to what's possible vs. what's practical.

fwiw, i have a GRS Magnum that almost NEVER leaves the drawer because there are so very few applications where my 901 isn't just as capable. if superduper hogging is your goal, then be prepared to do some hardcore fixturing and a lot of resharpening.

 

[quickcut07]

I find on Aluminum, cutting the design first is the best. As stated by the best too many chances of a mistake. Bike parts have many raised areas and corners, a mistake can be disaster to fix.
Cut then clean out to add depth to your background area. The metal is thick enough to go deeper and allows a bit more material that the buffer or chrome platter won't wash it out.
Depth can be an illusion !
Eric

 

[jerrywh]

I agree with Mitch. I had a GRS magnum handpiece and used it so little that I finally sold it.

 

[tim halloran]

Get the Tungsten piston, it's heavier.